CJ DuBe’ has always been an entrepreneur. With more than 25 years of experience, CJ knows a lot about business and people. Not following a traditional path, CJ has worked in a variety of capacities, from managing a sales team for a large international company to Director of Operations and HR for a facilities management firm. Seeing the need for talent management, CJ began consulting with businesses on their talent acquisitions and management functions. In 2006, along with two other talented entrepreneurs, CJ launched the professional contract placement firm Oberon, which in 2009 was ranked third on the Minneapolis – St. Paul Business Journal’s Fast 50 Awards. After selling Oberon CJ went looking for her next entrepreneurial venture and was introduced to Gino Wickman’s book TRACTION. Seeing the benefits of companies Implementing the Entrepreneurial Operating System® (EOS®), CJ had found her next obsession. Since 2010 helping entrepreneurs and their leadership teams have become CJ’s passion. During her journey, she has helped over 100 companies clarify, simplify, and achieve their vision. An award-winning entrepreneur with a dynamic background, CJ is also a sought-after speaker. She speaks throughout North America to spread the word of EOS and to help companies and leadership teams get better at three things: VISION, TRACTION and HEALTH.
Many people become entrepreneurs because they want to take control over their life, but it often feels like our business is running us instead of the other way around. This is especially true for visionaries who always feel like they need to keep coming up with plans and keep finding solutions to existing issues. CJ DuBe is a Certified EOS Implementer who has worked with over 113 entrepreneurial companies to date and is a sought after speaker. She is also a mother to seven children and a doting grandmother to 9 grandkids. Juggling work, family, and personal hobbies feel like impossible to a lot of entrepreneurs, but you too can take control of your business and your life and the first step is to make sure your business is strong in these aspects: Vision, Traction, and Health.
2:38 - Most entrepreneurs feel like their business is running them more than they're running their business
20:03 - The most important thing for visionaries is to find that puzzle piece that is their integrator
38:25 - Business leaders, especially visionaries, need clarity breaks - time to just stop and reflect on what you're doing.
50:52 - Balance is a process and a journey that you only achieve by being open and trying different things.
1:08:03 - CJ's passionate plea to entrepreneurs
GET IN TOUCH:
MARK LEARY:
www.linkedin.com/in/markhleary
www.leary.cc
CJ DUBE:
https://www.achievetraction.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/cjdube/
Production credit:
Engineering / Post-Production: Jim McCarthy
Art / Design: Immanuel Ahiable
Wednesday, October 7, 2020
SPEAKERS
Mark, CJ
Mark 0:00
So we're rolling, cool. We are live! This is You're Doing it Wrong with Mark Henderson Leary and my name is Mark, and I have a passion that you should feel in control of your life. And so what I do is I help you get control of your business. And part of how I do that is by letting you listen in on a conversation between two people who have a passion for excellence in the entrepreneurial world. We're talking about something that you already know something about. But this time, we're going deeper, and we're digging in and really getting into the nuts and bolts. So you can start to unlock your own secrets and break through your own ceilings. And so I'm so excited about my guest today. But before we dive in, I just want to remind you, please don't forget to subscribe, share, leave comments, it makes a big difference. And it's really helpful when you do that. And I'm so grateful for everyone who's done that so far. So, without further ado, I would like to introduce my friend and mentor, indeed, CJ Dube', who's always been an entrepreneur, and after her selling, selling her company, CJ went looking for her next entrepreneurial venture which was introduced, which was, you know, to her through Gino Wickman's book Traction, which by now you should know something about because that's what I do as well. And seeing what happens when they implemented that system - EOS, CJ had found her next obsession. And so since 2010, she's been helping entrepreneurs and their leadership teams to be their best. And she's an award-winning entrepreneur with a very dynamic background. And she is a sought after speaker throughout North America, spreading the word of EOS and helping companies get three things that we call vision, traction, and health. Welcome, CJ.
CJ 1:43
Hi, Mark. It's so great to be here. I really enjoyed it. And I absolutely love your energy. So...this is gonna make my day that my glass of wine later, maybe
Mark 1:55
a glass of wine before this didn't make your day?
CJ 1:57
No. didn't do that. I thought I would be a good girl.
Mark 2:01
A third glass does it right.
CJ 2:02
Yeah. So I love how you start this podcast, which is really about control of your business. And it's a fascinating statement to me, that kind of triggered me thinking like, what does that mean for people? What does control of your business mean and having worked with over 113 entrepreneurial companies...
Mark 2:27
Not to put too fine a point on it
CJ 2:28
Oh you know, we do have a scorecard here.
Mark 2:32
That's right, we do measure things around here
CJ 2:34
We do measure things once in a while. And it's a fascinating word control, right? Because we're thinking about entrepreneurs. And oftentimes, it's they feel that their business is running them more than they're running their business. So it's really like, Okay, what does that mean to them. And what I love about what I get to do every day or most days is to be able to help them to identify that identify what control means to them, and identify what does it look like? At what point in the journey a year from now, two years from now, I recently had a company, they, their 10-year target was like 100 million. And they've always said and had these breakthroughs, actually, this year in the crazy, crazy COVID year. And they're like, you know what, we can double that in another 10 years. So it's fascinating to see people on the journey and their leadership team and visionaries just really be able to open up and identify what that control word means to them. Because we think of it in different ways. So that I was just fascinated about how you started it.
Mark 3:52
Well, thank you. Because there's a lot to it. And it is funny how it's a very compact statement. feel in control of your life. Take control of your business. Oh, that sounds straightforward. But you with the experience, you're like that's a lot to unpack.
CJ 4:05
It's a lot to unpack. And I'm the number one thing that I find is the great work comes with business, turning the corner breaking through ceilings, getting to where it wants, it helps the personal control and family as well. Because so many of us entrepreneurs and visionaries spend most of our time in our businesses. And we have people in our families that are tugging at us and saying you spend too much time there. But once the business is really humming and you have a great feeling about that, your family life, your personal life also grows in a rich way. One thing that it takes though, and that's the word willing, willing to become open, honest and vulnerable.
Mark 4:57
So it speaks directly to leadership and when with that, you actually want us to actually slow down a little bit when you say you because you went, there was a journey that you described, and it is certainly implied. And that was, there's an individual that enters the arena of entrepreneurship in a very different mindset and a very different set of circumstances, in most cases, then they're about to be in, which is then again, even more different than what they're trying to create. There's a whole Dante s journey, actually, I've been using that metaphor a lot lately. But it's sort of you're at Ground Zero. And I would like to reach a heavenly plateau. Where do I have to go first, straight to hell. But we can't stay there. We want to make that worth something and learn from that.
CJ 5:51
Many visionaries think they know where they're going. And then there's the right turn happens and the left turn happens and it changes. And what happens is, it doesn't go as fast as they think it'll go, it doesn't go the direction they think it'll go. Some of that is okay. And some of its good. And some of it's just not. And so you have to be able to be open and honest with yourself to say, okay, what's my part in this? And how do I change it?
Mark 6:20
Yeah, so I think that speaks to one of the challenges that I see a lot with entrepreneur, Visionary entrepreneurs in particular, who on day one, Day Zero, whatever, early days, they had a vision. And so they had to go to do the work, which meant probably they had to do all the work. And so that meant the idea of what work I like and don't like, could not have been less relevant, because it was all theirs. So they go into this with this understanding, they got to do all the work and their enjoyment of it has nothing to do with it. They're motivated by the future and the goals that go with that. Well, somewhere along the line, they have, hopefully, enrolled more people in their vision, and gotten some people to carry the load that perhaps have not given themselves permission yet to start asking the question, well, what is my best contribution? And what do I do well? and what would happen if I broke this puzzle into different pieces, and I think that's the first sort of inclination, that open and honest, really has to mature. Because before that is, I mean, obviously, it honestly matters. Like you need to know if you're in the right business for the right job for that or not. But it's it the relevance of that really exponentially gets critical when you've got to start making people decisions in earnest.
CJ 7:34
Absolutely. So you really the Visionary, the owner, whether they're Visionary, by you know, personalities, personality, 20 ideas a week, or whether they're more structured and methodical, that person decides to start a business. So they're starting that business, and they feel in control and excited. And then it starts to grow. And then they need to start adding people. But what I find is, they go to people that they think are great people that they know. So it could be someone in their market or in their industry, and they find these people and they just pluck them, and they're great people, and they have good work ethic, and, and yet they never really defined a seat.
Mark 8:17
Right?
CJ 8:18
They never really defined, what do I need? Do I need a sales leader? Do I need an operations leader? Who's gonna do all my finance and accounting, right? They never really define it. They just know, gosh, I knew you from five years ago, and you are great. And you are very, you're very, very successful. I want you. I used to do this, so I get it right.
Mark 8:41
And at best, at best, it's a very blunt that I need a money person. Well, marketing is the worst. But money is where the finance person is. What the finance person is pretty bad too, because it almost always starts with a CPA, right? It's like, I need somebody in charge of Finance. I need a CPA like, wait, sit down and ask yourself what you need from your finance seat, and then figure out what a CPA does. And I bet you, they overlap like you thought.
CJ 9:03
So true. It's so true. And so that great person they brought into their company gets frustrated and upset, and then they're frustrated and upset with them because they're not doing what they thought they should do. But they never talked about what they thought they should do. And so it's really being able to learn how to float above and look down at your business and be able to go, Okay, this is what I need. But that means slowing that person down. That means you yourself have to go Okay, I have to go back and be a little more proactive before I get my word gets to be reactive.
Mark 9:38
Yeah, for sure. So you know what, really the last conversation you and I had was very inspiring to me. I asked very specific questions about how you've achieved this life that you have because you live the EOS live, which which will actually probably be a subject of another podcast but there's actually been that is there's a lot to unpack of what the EOS life is, but let's just say you feel in control. Your life and from the outsider's perspective, you have mastered a lot. How many children do you have?
CJ 10:07
I have seven children and nine grandchildren.
Mark 10:11
Quite a flock. Yes. And you probably know this, but you are also a woman. That's important, I make a joke out of that. That's important, because I believe we need great role models, who are women who master family, in family and quantity, and business? mastery, you know, this is not a side thing for you. I mean, you've made a lot of money, you continue to make a lot of money, you had a business, you sold the business, you've done it, you know, so I would love to kind of take us back. How did you get here? What were those first open and honest moments for yourself?
CJ 10:52
Um, well, so.... So two different scopes on it, right? So there's this family scope of ultimately, my family, what is a blended family, my husband and I got married 23 years ago. And we... he had three children, and I had three children. And then we had one together. So my motto has always been when it comes to children, is it takes a village. If you think of a business, it takes a village.
Mark 11:27
Right? Okay, resonate deeply with the point you're trying to make there.
CJ 11:30
Right? So. So you can't, you will not grow, you will not evolve, you will not learn if you don't take risks. And sometimes that's you cannot necessarily punish one children the same way you punish the other child, it just doesn't work. From experience anyways.
Mark 11:52
You're probably thinking about specific kids.
CJ 11:55
Not to be named right now.
But I've always been very open and honest, myself. And I've always been willing to look in the mirror. So the number one thing for me is, what's my part in this? If there's conflict, if there's concern, if there's, if I'm bumping against the ceiling, and I need to figure out how to break through it? I go back, and I spend time ultimately with myself and say, okay, what's my part in this? And I, you know, I'm a spiritual person. So I asked for a lot of guidance. But I have to be able to know that there's my part of it part in it, why did this show up what happened. And as soon as I realized the pieces that I own, I can go back and teach and coach and push and mentor better
Mark 12:54
to say more about that. So you, when you realize you got a piece of this, you are realizing you're not empowering other people fully? Are you taking control of your own bad habits? Or both
CJ 13:03
like, like, I can give you an example. You know, I had an employee in my old business, and we Every business has its guidelines, its rules, its way to do things, right. And this employee goes totally against though, goes totally rogue. And literally, I'm getting phone calls, and it's not going well. And I'm like, literally a couple swear words are in my brain, right? It's like, holy crap, what, what, and I, instead of going directly at him and wanting to punch him,
Mark 13:37
even wanting to but you didn't actually punch him.
CJ 13:39
That's my point. That therein lies my point. So I created for myself, because once upon a time, I actually did slam my fist on desks, I did actually punch because I had this young, pissed off kind of, you know, I'm a, I don't know, my stature is five foot one. But somewhere in there, I'm seven-foot tall. Right. And so
Mark 14:04
I believe that you have that energy and that power.
CJ 14:07
But I realized people weren't really hearing me when I was over angry, or I was over upset. Or I threw it at people too hard. And so I created my own 24 hour rule. And so I look at that employee and I said, I'm extremely upset right now. I am not happy that you and I are going to meet tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock. He had to go home and think I had to go home and think and I had to look in the mirror and say what's my part in this? How did this come about? Did I not teach right did I not train right did I did not know the right things. And then we had met the following day, and I had it all drafted out for my own brain. And I was probably a good 25% of it. But he owned 75%. Okay,
Mark 15:05
did he show up ready to own that?
CJ 15:07
Yep. In the end, he did. He fought, he fought me for a while, but then we get to the equal playing ground at the end of the meeting. And so I'm just saying, for me, the hard thing is, is Yeah, getting knocked on my ass a couple of times, several times, several times, I've gotten knocked on my ass, and I had to get back up. And I had to go, Okay, why did that happen? Why did that show up in my life? And how do I either make sure it doesn't happen again. Or if it does happen again, I've thought through it. And I can approach it differently to get a different outcome. Because if you do things the same way, every time you're going to get the same outcome, right?
Mark 15:48
When the problem is we doing or doing so many things that are happening automatically, that we're just blind to so many repetitive behaviors, and that's the hard part is looking into the blind spot.
CJ 16:00
It is looking, that's a great way to put it. It's we've got so many things going on that ultimately in our days are transactional. Yeah. So which is why I start every day with meditation, and reading, I read something I meditate, then I workout, right every morning, and I do that to get myself ready and be thoughtful for the day.
Mark 16:26
Do you identify more as Visionary or Integrator?
CJ 16:28
Visionary?
Okay.
Mark 16:31
As I said, I've been wrong. So...
CJ 16:32
But no, I've played both though. So, you know, if you looked at my background through all of the position, I mean, I took one company from 35 employees to 150 took it International, I was an operations leader in that situation. You go to another company, and I was a sales leader. And I had five divisions of sales people and training sales. So I when I first I was a test reader for Rocket Fuel. And I first took their out of the book rocket fuel their survey of integrate, I was two points apart. Oh, really, I really was like, 80....80. I think 80, 79, 80 and Visionary and 76 on Integrator. So I am one of those rare people that can do both. But I'm ultimately very Visionary because I get something in place, and I build it. Once it's built. I'm like, at now what right now what do I get to do? Right? And so I am much more Visionary. And again, my Kolbe, which I'm not sure your listeners know about Kolbe is, Kolbie is an assessment tool that's cognitive. So it measures on fact finding follow through Quick Start implementer. And I won't go into depth with it. But to give you an example, it's a scale of one to 10 not good or bad. One, twos and threes are considered low. 7, 8, 9, 10s are high. Well, I'm a 4-4-8-3. So my Kolbe, my natural grain of working is quickstart. So I'm going to get enough facts to go. I'm going to follow through or handoff more likely delegate to get done, what needs to get done. And then I'm just going to keep going.
Mark 18:19
Yeah, and then so not to get into the weeds as well. But quickstart tends to be associated with tolerance of risk. Like, you know, I don't even have to be perfect, you know, I don't mind a few bullet holes in the in the car as we go through the neighborhood. We can fix those.
CJ 18:34
What neighborhood are you in?
Mark 18:37
The entrepreneurial neighborhood. Yeah, starting things, and you know, you're going to take the risk. So the reason I mentioned that is, well, there's lots we could talk about, and it does, your example does illustrate that people can be both, but not at not what the same time very well, there are even a tiny fraction people who can kind of do both. But it is really Yin and Yang, at the same time. It's pushing and pulling. And it's it's hard to really take a bigger bite of the future and mitigate risk and focus on a plan that's already been written, you kind of have to. So it's interesting how people in various spots of their lives. Gino was at no better example, you know, having been an Integrator for his dad's company and then becoming Visionary down the line. And you think of him as a Visionary. So you can do the role if you've got it in you. But when you look at people who sort of self identify that Visionary component, does show up in the form of impatience, and sort of periodically explosive emotional outbursts. And this need, I think, to really well, I hate to sort of take that this burden off of the Integrator because they certainly do this too. But most of the visionaries I work with are almost, they are passionately obsessed with some form of self improvement, like we gotta get, we gotta unwind this, you know, I'm trying to make a bigger and bigger impact and if I can't figure out how to unlock my myself, I'm never going to realize the impact I can make.
CJ 20:03
So the number one thing I believe, for a Visionary to make sure you're doing is find that puzzle piece find that Integrator they need the puzzle piece, the person they trust impeccably, the person that can execute and follow through on their visions, the person that can say, Yep, this is a great idea, we can do it the next month, oh my gosh, you're crazy. This is never gonna happen. It's not realistic for these five reasons. So this idea goes out the window. And this one note, let's put it on our long term issues list. And we'll do it look at it for next year. Right? So you need that puzzle piece that's going to keep that Visionary grounded. Because visionaries The thing is, is if you don't trust, and even if you have a team, as a Visionary, our natural way to do it, because we've done it before, we took all the risks, we figured out how to do things. But our natural way is if something's going awry and not working, it's a dive back into the weeds. And when we dive back in the weeds, we're driving our, our employees nuts, we're driving them nuts, because we're not meant to be in the weeds. So the keys, right? We're not meant to be in the weeds. So the key thing is learn who your Integrator is, and, and fill those seats. Well, when you really are able to learn how to let go of the vine, as we say or delegate and elevate, you're able to get so much more done.
Mark 21:30
So we talked about Integrator a lot, so I'm assuming listeners know what that is. But in case not, it really is the number two in charge, really the boss who is in charge of accountability, making sure the trains are running on time really comfortable being data driven. Really, this sense of accountability. Equivalent titles in the industry are often your general manager, President coo type, although we don't find titles useful in our world in the EOS world. But that's just to kind of give you a sense of what that is. But I'm really glad you brought that up because I have to confess three and a half years into implementing EOS and helping clients getting what they want. The first year or two, I underplayed, undervalued underestimated how essential that Integrator function is, for companies period, because I worked with so many companies were like, yeah, we're not quite there yet. I can't afford that. Like, can I can I sit in the seat for a little bit? Well, you can sit in the seat longer, when you've got the good system in place, and you got some good structure there, you can, it gives me gives you some time to figure out what your Integrator looks like. And then I didn't make it clear, because they didn't understand that like this was temporary, that you are going to hit a ceiling that you cannot get past and it is going to be frustrating until you get very frustrated until you get that puzzle piece that allows you to live in that very emotional, non lingual space, right? If you read Simon cynics leaders eat last talking about and then start with why and all these things. The emotional component of leading your company is that doesn't do well in language terms. And so the Integrator being the accountable person ends up kind of being this machine to help convert your emotional energy into language and actionable instructions. And that's a full time job by itself. Yeah, and you are not the best engine for that you need to go take a bigger and bigger bite of the future and bring that to the table and have this yin and yang combination puzzle piece match. And that's it's just I can't overstate. How important is that you get that as soon as you can.
CJ 23:37
I agree. 100%. So no,
Mark 23:41
You. How did you find your How did you find yours? how did how did that come about?
CJ 23:47
Well, So ultimately, I was in both seats with my business before EOS. I mean, I mostly learned the Visionary Integrator by doing EOS. And so I had two partners, and there was a few multiple businesses. So I was running this business as Visionary Integrator, then, of course, you know, sold my interest in those businesses and moved on to EOS and that's when I really learned Wow, right, I get it now.
Mark 24:18
I get Okay, so you as the combo. You're the perfect cautionary tale. Yeah, I did it. You survived it. I think it's sort of like, well, don't try this at home. Don't try like CJ did it. That doesn't mean you can so talk about that.
CJ 24:39
Well, the biggest thing that I learned is the delegate and elevate because as much as I'm capable of being a Visionary, and yet capable of getting into the weeds and getting stuff done, and doing it extremely well. What happens is you said it earlier, Mark It's very hard to be in the weeds doing the job, and be out here as well thinking about where we're going and how we're going to get there. So it's it's very hard to do both at the same time. So you can time block your time. And give yourself permission to just think we need to just give ourselves permission to think, gosh, where would I be five years from now? Where should we be five years from now? In some businesses, it's necessary for the owner, Visionary, to hold both seats because of the economic conditions. I've had a couple of companies during the COVID this time, in the last several months that that's happened, they had to go back into the weeds. But they know what it's like to get out of it too. So they go in, they do what they need to do. They have great strong people around them. And they're still able to do it. And then when they're ready, they'll bring that Integrator back in. It's about size of business to a certain degree. But always, always, I'm teaching right people right seats, and being honest with yourself about right people right seats, because that's not easy.
Mark 26:19
Where do people get stuck there?
CJ 26:22
Well, they get stuck with two ways. One, they have someone in the seat, that's just not the right person in that seat. It's the right seat. But we're...
Mark 26:34
any seat or Integrator seat
CJ 26:36
Yeah, the empty seat doesn't matter there any seat, whether it's integrated or not the right puzzle piece for them, whether it's the sales leaders, not the right sales leader, because we're not really getting sales, we all stall out and take forever to let that person go. Or to have that coaching out conversation, right? Or to have that accountability, conversation. It's human nature. But the more that we can learn it, which EOS itself helps us do that from a people component. But the more we're able to learn it, and realize you're actually helping that person. Because when you keep somebody in a seat, you're not helping them. All you're doing is elongating them getting onto something there they could be really good at. And I have a motto it's it's a motto because I spent so many years in the placement industry, right? It's hire slow fire fast. Hire slow isn't about time, as much as it is about really thinking and doing your due diligence of what's the seat, and then really having great depth full conversations with the person candidates to fill the seat.
Mark 27:51
I still find myself wanting to shortcut there. And I will be trying to not even when not wanting to I don't want to I do I do shortcut it. And I figured out after the fact like Oh man, I didn't do any of the work I thought I did.
CJ 28:04
Because we all get it. We just want to fill it, we just want to fill a seat we just and yet if you really think about it, the cost of filling a seat not right. It's a lot of money. And it's a lot of things you cannot even peripherally no because if that person that's not right is affecting all of the employees around them. And the productivity there is poor.
Mark 28:28
So I think there's two points I want to come to give the criticality, the Integrator and also the Visionary challenge there. And that is, as a Visionary myself, I always feel like I'm beating up on visionaries like no, no, I'm beating up on me. I'm trying to work on my own own issues. And and I see him identify with a Visionary wanting to want to be there already, we really got like, I'm so passionate about this vision, I'm hanging on to the back of the wagon, just the idea that I can't have it instantaneously, we got to work our way there and be patient, be patient Be patient, and it seems like it's moving in slow motion. And that's just the nature of Visionary. So just that they're driven, they want the vision otherwise, what would be the point if we need it now. So when we have a member of the leadership team who turns out not to be a right fit, possibly by self selection, well, like, you know, I told you when I joined this firm that I really liked doing this kind of work, but people wasn't really my thing. And I thought we could do it. And then I thought I liked it. And now I realize I hate it. I had I had a few weeks ago, a client do that exact scenario scenario that one of the operations leads was like, I gotta be honest, I really hate the people side of this. And I want to go back to the hands on stuff. And the Visionary was so disappointed. She even said, I'm so disappointed. And I was really kind of trying to translate because I was like, No, that was a gift that was beautiful. Somebody just mean very humble, and really self sacrificial in terms of their ego and their admission and doing the right things for the company. And you I would want you to feel grateful for the opportunity. But it was a kind of moment of clarity for me that that that she want that dose of reality, she wanted her problem solved already. And then to get it to put that problem back on her core, it was not something she wanted to be patient with. And I think that's kind of, I do that. And I get stuck in wanting to believe that somebody is the right person for a seat, because if I choose to admit that they're not, that creates a lot of work for me, and I want to pretend that's not happening. But that's not healthy. So that's the criticality the Integrator, because I see companies over and over again, they do a really hard people change. And you're like, whew, wow, behind us, thank goodness, that's gone. It's like, well, that's not the last one. Like, you have to build a competency. This is business, right? And that's your job. That's not, that was not an anomaly. That is what you got to get better and better at, and visionaries I think, are just like myself, gonna be passable at that, but never great at that.
CJ 30:51
No, visionaries by nature, are not great people, managers. They're just, they're not very good at the accountability piece. Because that's the industry I somewhat came from, I am pretty good at I am very good at delegating and elevating. But I'm like anyone else, I don't really like to go back out and say, Oh, I have to refill the seat. Oh, EOS worldwide, my head coach, now Visionary for us worldwide, what happens, I now have to go find another person and it agonizes me to go, Okay, I gotta get this, right. I gotta get this, right. And so it's a lot of work. And it's a lot of heart. And it's a lot of head to figure out what's the right person for a seat. But when you do it, and you spend the time on it, and you get that person, it helps you for the future of the business, and helps you for the future of you so much more.
Mark 31:52
Yeah, I mean, it feels a little Sisyphean for those of us who are Visionary, it's like, you know, no loss of ground field acceptable at all. And you having to take two steps back or one step back to take even 10 steps forward, just is like, Oh, I just wanted to take the 10 steps forward. I know. So I think the lesson from that is that it's really not about the progress. It's about the process that creates progress. And so you have to be, you have to get good at it, taking this the steps back and and sort of take that as part of the good news, which is, you know, intellectually logical, and emotionally, never tastes good.
CJ 32:31
I think the other thing with visionaries, is getting out of your own head, and your own ego. Because when you are able to hire people that are better and smarter than you in certain subject areas, you know, like when I would go hire a subject matter expert, or I bring someone on that's actually better and smarter than me, it makes me a better Visionary makes me a better leader. So I have this belief myself of wanting to, you know, always look for someone that's actually a little bit better than me.
Mark 33:09
Well, so let's slow that down a little bit. Because that's not new logic or not new wisdom, and I appreciate it. And it's as timeless as always, it's important to hear it. But turning it into something actionable. You last conversation you and I had you shared that you one of the things you feel is a great talent of yours is the ability to paint a clear picture of what the outcome looks like. And as I heard that and felt that I was like, Yeah, man, I don't think I'm not good. And so I started pulling that apart and thinking, Well, what are the steps to do that? And I realized it was a bit of a process that it started with asking questions like, Well, what do I want? And I realized, well, sometimes I don't even take the time to ask myself that question. So that very simple description of like, you know, I'm sorry about somebody better than me. Which means I've got a vision of what that would look like, right? Which means I've done some real slow, how did you? How did you learn how to do that? Because I think somebody like myself, I get the concept. And I think I know how to do it, because I understand the concept. But what I realized when I tried to do it is that I've missed all the kinetics of it like what what do I need a piece of paper? Do I Do I need five minutes or need five hours like those are the things that are just sort of escaped me until I try it?
CJ 34:27
How I learned it was by screwing it up. Quite honestly, I learned it because running fast the way I run fast and having the vision in my head but not sharing it and getting it out of my head. And so then I would get upset when it didn't go the way I wanted it to go. I'd say go go do this, but I didn't paint the picture. I didn't say what dunloe would look like I didn't say anything. I just had an expectation in my head. And I deploy someone out to do it and then it would fall flat. And it wouldn't work. And it would take more time. And so I was like, okay, same thing, have I thought through what done looks like what kind of outcome do I really want. And maybe I don't know the exact outcome, but I have a vision of what it could be. So I've learned to say, this is what I think this can look like, this is what I see it to be in the big picture. This is if I were to do research, I would start here. And then I'm leaving you to figure out the rest. I hired you to be the expert to figure out the rest of this. And you and I need to be keeping in touch on on what's happening along the way to make sure we get to the great outcome, because hiccups happen in but in the middle, things happen in the middle, and I may have to readjust my brain to what outcome really can be or should be.
Mark 35:55
Yeah, I love that example. Because I've started summarizing that concept as you need to look at the very far and the very near Yeah, and nothing else. And I think EOS does a phenomenal job of doing that. Like what are we doing in 10 years? What are we doing in three years? Yeah, and what's our quarterly rocks? And like, what are your plans as part of that, but we do pretty every everything we do in the system sort of has liked it at work, and where do we start, and we everything kind of has a near and far and let's not worry about the middle, that's about getting the right person in the job to who can use some judgment to figure that out. And it is such a great reductionist way to I think to just simplify all the ways we could look at everything that's gonna happen. So you say you paint the picture? Well, and I still just think, as a leader, that's not an overnight decision. How long How long did it take you to get from like, I think I suck at this to I think I'm I think I'm pretty good. passable, pretty good at this.
CJ 36:50
How long? years? I'm sure years. I mean, I've been managing people. All the way back to when I was young 19. I worked for raddison. And I had 40, waitresses reporting to me, as the dining room manager at the age of 19. And 20. Wow. And so and they were definitely much older than me, right? So I had to, I had to learn how to have a level of respectable command. It's what I call it, to be able to help that rusty restaurant run well do all the scheduling for 40, waitresses and do all the banqueting, right. So I mean, that's really taking me back. I'm not telling you how old I am. But you could probably figure out some math along the way. But point is, is you start if you can be the type of person that's openly open to taking the risk and learning from your mistakes. I think people like that go farther. I think that I try to be very calculated with my risks. Now, I tried to take what I've learned, and do it differently. But the journey started at an early age for me. And then having the opportunity to manage a lot of people throughout my entire career. I'm still tweaking it, I still tweak it and or have to look at a situation that feels tough and difficult. So I haven't done this one before. How do I look at this? So I guess,
Mark 38:25
yeah, it all resonates with me. And the thing that I think worked against me for so long, was not having any space. Mm hmm. Keeping the not just the schedule, but my brain full, step by step, no space to look back and sort of ask the question, What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? And even if I do, do I have a place to go put that knowledge and to adjust the process and incorrect for it? Which so that leads to this very resistant tool, misunderstood oftentimes. So in the EOS system called the clarity break, and only really only recently did I start to get the real depth of wisdom and have exactly how sacred it needs to be in my world. And I have, I've changed my schedule around it relatively recently. And now I'm like a super mega evangelist and how critical it is to figure out to take a moment by moment I mean, a couple hours, you ask yourself this question, what am I doing? I think that's the essence of the clarity or what am I doing? Is it working? Is it the right thing? And and kind of in have some time after that to sort of say like Well, what does that mean Do I need to make changes what were the changes look like and and do the work that comes from that self reflection that self respect actually technically word is to look at yourself respect is to look back at yourself and and see you as you are.
CJ 39:53
Clarity breaks are number one necessity for Any leader, the best leaders in our entire world are those that actually go take time to think, in their own quiet space. And sometimes it's just a blank piece of paper and, okay, what's popping in my head? And sometimes for me, it's like, Okay, I have to solve this. And so I just go block off the time and I just go, Hmm, first of all, what is this? Whatever it is whether I'm looking at a new structure and building, whether it's what could it be three years from now, but I pick a topic that I'm maybe feeling a little stuck on? And I go, okay, what's this? And I just be by myself.
Mark 40:43
So where I've gone wrong with thinking time as a Visionary, because I think a lot of visionaries, think like I think all the time are you talking about? I can't stop thinking like, if I wish I could think less and like, Well, yeah, that might be the case. But thinking in the, in the form of the clarity break is not about reading a new book, adding a new system, finding a new technique, a new skill set, it's like working with what you've already got.
CJ 41:05
Correct? Yeah, it's really just, you know, helping yourself, which ultimately helps others just to spend time thinking on whether it's an emotional situation, whether it's a tactical situation, whether it's a, you know, I'm not getting enough production on the plant floor, what no matter what it is, when we keep on the on the wheel, as I call the chipmunk wheel, we keep Go Go going. We're not really solving. We're not spending time to solve and we're not really getting to root issues either. Right? When you take time to think you're able to break through what is the root issue that I'm trying to solve here. So once you get to the root, then you can start processing and helping yourself to come up with ideas of different ways to solve. Yeah, agree, but it's not easy. I mean, it's interesting, because I used to do a lot of it on a plane, right? Because I was traveling a lot. And so I put my headset in, and I tuned everybody out, and that'd be my time. Well, there's good and bad. I'm kind of loving, not traveling as much, but at the same time, I'm like, God, I really have to make myself make some time to think.
Mark 42:21
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the more I think about it, I'm always working for more clarity of how to land it for those people who resist it. And for me, this conversation is the clarity break is really your required weekly time. to unpack what you just learned last week, what you experienced, because you don't know yet, you have to unpack it, examine it, and address it. And a couple hours is not a lot of time to do with all the things you all the lessons, you could accumulate all the things you could potentially address that could pile up in a week. And so if somebody is like, I can't take two hours, like you better find, because otherwise, you're leaving all the money on the table, all that self improvement, all those mistakes, you could stop making, they're gonna keep coming back at you.
CJ 43:13
Great.
Yeah, it's amazing. It's just humans, we like to keep going, especially visionaries, because we're usually more quickstarts. And we think we have to keep doing doing doing doing, and we don't have to keep doing, sometimes we can just sometimes the not doing is what is better for us?
Mark 43:34
Well, that's that's agreed 100%. And one of the first things that changed my thinking about Visionary creativity, was the first time I did any kind of one page plan predates might us days. But it was the belief that I was creating and creating on a unified canvas. Well, I had one vision, Why does everybody act like I'm changing my story and changing the plan all the time, they just don't see what I see. And soon they will, and then they'll realize it's just one unified vision. And then we did the exercise and work to kind of create a one page plan for the for the business and the organization. I was like, okay, maybe I do see that I was a little all over the map before. And now this is where a lot more focused. And now that I've got a written plan of where we're going, that we've all agreed upon, and I am fully invested in my creativity that is limitless and its power, or anybody's any Visionary, that limitless creativity, that's mine. I'm now focused in on some pretty specific and I'm in the lane and now when I'm solving problems, and I'm working, I have a context I can I can do something that's meaningful as opposed to in the absence of that plan, like a veto. Like if you if you spend four hours without a veto. What are you gonna what problem are you going to solve? I don't know. That might be that might be a really tricky situation. If you spent half a day thinking without really without a touchdown to figure out where to focus your energy. That could be tricky.
CJ 44:56
Yeah, that is great to record right take a clarity breaks Typically around our VTO so for the EOS worldwide, VTO I take I do it for both, I do it for myself my veto, and I do it for when I'm on the I'm on the leadership team of the worldwide organization. And so before I go into that quarterly, I'm taking a clarity break reviewing our VTO and our three year picture. And I'm thinking through, okay, what is it that I need to take on this quarter that will make a difference towards the three year picture or getting something done or one year plan. And sometimes I have breakthroughs and other ideas that I'm able to express and share with my team, right? Because you want to maximize when you're doing quarterlies or meetings with your team, you want to maximize that time, you want to make the most of it, you want to be able to to be rich and just walk out of there. So completely energized. And that's what we do for our companies too, is we want to push them to just really give it all give everything they've got. So they walk out of that quarterly meeting, ready, and they get a lot done. And then they come back in 90 days later. So you do it for yourself. And that's what we teach to.
Mark 46:22
Yeah, absolutely. That's the essence of the quarterly Pulse is to make sure we're not losing track of that. And because that's the my estimate, like the failsafe, like, because some teams, especially in those early days, let's talk about the VTO you guys been talking about this as a company, No, you haven't looked at this and a quarter, we, we need to at least do it every quarter. Ideally, it's running through the veins of the organization. And again, the core values are talked about every day, and people are know where we're going. And it doesn't have to be vinyl letters on the wall. It doesn't have to be shirts, but it is alive in the organization. So on my clarity break, I actually have my personal plan, which is like a VTO and I have my company, and I'll just pull them out. And I'll like hug them. And then I'll read them and just kind of check in Am I do? Am I living my own core values? Is that right? And I'll kind of think of some examples like, Am I doing that? Am I doing the right stuff that I set my world up in a way to support and reinforce this kind of stuff. And and sometimes it takes me very specific places. Sometimes it doesn't. But it's it's really that I use it. Not everybody has to do that plot the VTO. But you certainly don't want to be the Visionary who changes the VTO every week, that is a total. That's a disaster that we're not doing that. But it is somebody who's trying to make sure my life and my business are very harmoniously integrated on a weekly basis. It's important for me just to kind of look at the two and say like, yep, harmoniously going the right direction. That's, that should feel good. And it does, it helps me feel like I'm winning. And it gives me real clarity on where to focus and what to tune out.
CJ 48:00
It's really it really, really is true. So for me to be my best global community leader and to be the best implementer for the companies that I work with. I need one a little bit of time by myself. But two I, I need time, dedicated time with family dedicated time to because I'm a social person. I'm an extrovert, right? So I do the quiet time well, but I have to have that life. My personal life has to be full too. I just I just I some people are not that way. They're all work, work work. But if my personal life isn't feeling as good and enriched as, as my work life, I I feel out of balance.
Mark 48:53
Yeah, you know, the word balance comes up a lot. And I've started to push it out of the way in favor of other words, because I think balance is kind of mind and it's loaded. Healthy is the word I like, yeah, I need a healthy recipe for my life that is that's gonna have different ingredients, I'm gonna try to make a cake that's gonna have a certain amount of sugar and a certain amount of flour. If I keep if I like the taste of sugar, and I keep adding it to the point, but my listeners have heard this story many times. But if I keep adding sugar, eventually, I have a hard candy, which is fine too. But it's not a cake. You just got to understand what recipe you're trying to work for. And so healthy is calling the recipe, making that best recipe and enjoying the fruits of that.
CJ 49:40
Yeah, healthy is about whatever it is for you though. So right. So I mean I I completely understand that the word balance has a it has an overused meaning in different ways. But it's different for everybody. Right? I mean, I'm consistently a 55-60 hour a week person I have been most of my life. I'm okay with it. Someone else needs 35-40 hours a week to feel healthy. And okay. I just that person, but I'm also going to go meet girlfriends for dinner tonight, and I'm going golfing with my daughter tomorrow. So, I mean, I have to do both all of it. That's just who I am. But someone else is different. Right? Someone else's healthy is, you know, watching a Netflix series for the afternoon?
Mark 50:31
Well, I mean, that's that was what you're talking about is what what some of the most magical work we do is, is helping somebody decipher that because it requires openness and honesty. And and as one ingredient, you have to ask yourself what is healthy for me? Which means we got to be open and honest with ourselves. And we got to let go of comparisons.
CJ 50:51
Right. Exactly.
Mark 50:53
And that and neither are super easy. Yes. It's a process. I think we enter that enter that journey. And we try stuff. And yeah, you know, what I knew need to do, I need to work less. Actually, I hated that. I hated working less I need to work about like you said, a lot of people might describe like, you know, 35 hours that was I felt useless. And I 55 hours, that's fine. And I can I can do that. And then you can do things like give 100% attention to my family.
CJ 51:20
Yeah. And then I just shut it off, I have learned one piece of mastery that I'm most days, not always, but I'm usually pretty good at is when I'm done, I'm done. And I will, you know, stop. I will like literally turn off my phone, I won't. I tried to just cut the line. And I'm going to go focus on you now. But, you know, we're entrepreneurs, right. So that's not a perfect world. That's we're entrepreneurs, we live our businesses 24, seven, half the time, to the best of your ability to go take your breaks and be with your family. But there's going to be the time. You know, I can remember a time when I'm literally Sunday brunch, I got like 20 people come and they're also coming through the door. And I got a call coming from a client. And I look at the call and I go she's the last one that would call me on a Sunday. And I answered the phone because I just felt compelled to answer the phone. And she had an extreme tragedy with one of our leadership team members. And she just goes, I just need to talk about it. And I can't call anyone else to talk about I said, so let's talk about it. I told my husband have fun with that brunch. I'll be in here for an hour. Yeah. Because sometimes there's just what we need to do, you know, things happen. So there's a little bit of flexibility that needs to be in there as well.
Mark 52:49
Yeah, so that is exactly right, having that dynamic of flexibility. But I have a learn of finding around this idea of presence as you described it, which is I can be focused on this. And I can also be flexible, which is an added ingredient to that. But those are not. This is going to sound contradictory. The what you're describing is not a recipe as much as it is as a result. And the result comes from, I believe, first doing the work of what's most important figuring out what's most important, what are your priorities. And then you go back and give the presence and you give it what it needs completely undistracted if you can get to that point. And then when you move on to the next level, you can leave what you had behind because you gave it enough attention that it's solid. And it was the priority. There's 1000 things that could draw your attention. But if you're going to tune everything else out in favor, what's what's in front of you, you that has to be in the confidence that nothing's going to come attack you when you're not looking.
CJ 53:55
Sure. Sure. presence is key and being present. And I would tell you, sometimes listening with our hearts and not our heads is one of the most valuable things we can learn to do. Taking time, because we're always sometimes thinking I mean, even if we do it here on the podcast, it's like thinking about what are we going to say next? Where are you gonna say next, when maybe I don't need to worry about what I'm going to say next. I just need to be here with my heart. And that's a very conscious effort to learn how to do that. And thank heavens, it's a journey to mastery and mastery never ends because I have to work on it a lot.
Mark 54:42
Sure, it involves making mistakes as well. Yeah. I agree and this listening with your heart, being observant yourself and other people You in the moment of getting a call that there's a lot of that story a lot a lot we probably won't even go into because I know a little bit more about that story. The ability to make the decision in the moment was something you earned. And intuitively, like, there's no real instruction set like no, if that was an experience you had, you went with your gut. And you had an important call, you earn the right to ask your husband to handle the brunch. That I mean, the work you did with that that series of events was not the product of decisions in the moment, they were a product of years of decisions that got you to the place to know how to handle that.
CJ 55:43
Very true. There. There are. It's funny, we talk about entrepreneurial companies, right. And we talk about rules of the game. From a Visionary Integrator, and just the rules of the game, partnership rules of the game, things like that. And we teach it as an entrepreneurial business. Which is great to get those rules of the game, right. You know, I mean, even in the very first focus day we teach, you know, a handful of handful of rules, you know, Dr. Thomas Gordon's parent effectiveness training, and no, we don't teach parenting. But if you think about it, we're teaching these things in an entrepreneurial business. So how many times have you ever seen an entrepreneur who becomes an entrepreneur goes off and does their business wholeheartedly, it ends up in a divorce? A lot, a lot? A lot. So I encourage everyone to think about what's your family rules of the game? What's you and your husband's rules of the game? My husband knew I would never do that if it wasn't really important. So I didn't get any pushback. He was like, Okay, got you. Right, because we did spend years of figuring out what that looked like. And we didn't always do it so gracefully, believe me. But it's, it. That's why I go right back to kind of where I started of it takes a village, right. So if he can get that village, all moving in the same direction, beautiful things happen.
Mark 57:33
So speak to that a little bit. I had Mike Kotsis on a couple weeks ago, and we talked about the work he's done with helping friends and family. Yeah, some more kind of planning for the family. And I have friends and clients who I do the same kind of thing with. So if you know where you're trying to go with the business, talk to me about how your wife feels about that. Because you're going to make some decisions, you're going to probably intentionally take on some risk. And you could probably have a conversation to today, that would make that future a lot easier to handle. And so I have them do the the process of getting on the same page of what they're thinking for the family and how the business fits into that. And it helps them really head off some otherwise uncomfortable conversations in the future that they're probably gonna have if they talk about how they're gonna handle it now, and they plan for it. Now. How does how does that work in your world?
CJ 58:28
Well, so you know, coming from a place of blending, right? I mean, it's almost like merging two companies, right? Yeah. Yeah, they were, they were five to 14. So we had to blend. Two different ways of being raised. And we had to blend that together. And what does that look like? And so there were certain rules, that throughout the years that were important, school was important. But I'm work ethic is extremely important to me. It's one of my values. It's showing up well and doing a great job. But family is important to me. So like we had what I started out as mandatory Sunday family dinner, it was mandatory meeting. Everyone was back in the house, they'd go out and see, you know, their other families and things like that. And everyone was back Sunday night and there were sports, but there was never sports on Sunday night. So it was always on I always made dinner. I would I love to cook so I always would make these big meals for Sunday. Sometimes it was a Vikings game. Yep. I'm sorry girl, Minnesota girl. So football and you know whether whether it was spaghetti or whatever it was right, but it was mandatory. Well, then you fast forward and they're in college, or they're, you know, seniors in high school. And it's still mandatory. family dinner and my husband I go, yeah, we're gone for the weekend. They go, that's fine. We'll come over we'll make dinner for everybody, they did it without us, they go to the house, even though we weren't there. And, you know, it's so it still happens to this day that we have, I'll get this text because I travel and whatever, okay, we need a family dinner, when are you going to be here, meaning in Minnesota usually versus Phoenix. So you just figure out your own. My number one thing for me vision wise, and I shared with my husband too, is that we have very strong, independent children that have great work ethic, work ethics, and have each other's back.
Mark 1:00:40
This sounds a lot like core values to me.
CJ 1:00:44
Probably very true. And I am pleased to say that I have seven children that are best friends today. And I could prove it to you by their constant snapchats back and forth to each other. So I don't know, I again, it's very simulating sometimes how companies and families really align same rules of the game.
Mark 1:01:08
I mean, yeah, you said it a bunch of times, it takes a village. And I don't think we're doing justice for what that means. And we're gonna have to wrap it at some point soon. But I do want to make sure we finish that point. A business is not a business, if you can't enroll other people in the vision and allow the people to contribute, okay. And a family is something that I think a lot of people expect, you're supposed to know what that means. I think for one thing, anything that's business related, we can apply science freely. If we apply science and process and things like that to the family, people start to get the icky I don't wanna I want this to be it's must be intuitive, you know? Like, I don't think it's like that, for some people, maybe with a lineage of good family habits. But we especially we do something like a blend, blended family, like you described it, well, like there aren't assumptions you got to ask, and when you ask, you might not get the answer you want. And you're gonna have to compromise on that. And so you start to have to apply some science and some conversations and, and really get on the same page. So what does when you say, you know, give me some examples, who's the village.
CJ 1:02:26
So if we're relating it to, I'll give you both but relating it to a company. It's think of it from the perspective of a leadership team, all being on the same page with, where they're going, and how they're going to get there. And then they're working with their teams and their departments. It's like, if using our EOS language of a rock, rarely, rarely is a rock, something that one person does solo all by themselves, or shouldn't be, it never should be. The village to me is bringing people together that have different ideas, different sources of subject matter expert, to have the common goal to get where we need to go. So as the global community leader for EOS worldwide, it's the team that matters. It's not me. It's the team. It's having the right people on the team, the right trainers, the right coaches, the people that love passionately what they do, and all I'm doing is helping us drive the road, paved the road. I'm using their expertise over and over. I'm, sometimes I poke the bear a little bit. You know that about me? Yeah. So I push us so but it takes a lot of people to get where we're going to go. Even if you looked at Gino Wickman, Gino had to make a choice in his life all those years ago. Am I going to bring this to the world? Or am I just going to keep this doing this for myself, because I'm making a great income doing it. He chose to take it to the world. I think I was like there was like maybe 15 of us when I started and now we're just shy of 400. So that's a village. It takes a village to get where we're going and what we're doing. And it is an each and every company. And so don't go it alone is my message to visionaries don't go it alone. You can't you won't get where you really want to go without bringing on great people. And a family won't do that either. A family isn't going to get the rich reward successes that the children want in their life the parents want in their life without helping each other. And believe me, there's many a time to both an employee a peer a child. I've had to tell them what they don't want to hear. And they've had to do that to me too. So
Mark 1:05:00
Well, what you said was beautiful and really helped. And it brought up. And I don't know where I read this. And it was, I don't know, I unfortunately, I can't give credit to whoever inspired this thinking. But they were describing that there are two main socialization paradigms that people grew up under. And one is that value, power, strength, resource resource comes through knowledge and things. And it is about education and figuring things out. And it's an intellectual view of value and resource. And the other paradigm is that resource comes through people. And that is about relationships. And it is intangible in that sense. And so that's kind of polarity. And I believe that I kind of got brought up in the first one. And so it's not as intuitive to me to go first to a human being as a resource. I go to thinking, I go to knowledge, a theory of a formula. And so what I've learned is that does, I don't believe any longer than that is the recipe to get what I want from my life. And so I do believe that if you want to be the best cat, operator, designer, individually creative person that that first paradigm probably works for you, in your job, I would challenge that it might have its limitations and your family life. And you might need to understand how to think that through. But I do think that is the essence of what we're talking about here as leadership that we have to really like, you know, very much Michael Gerber. Like, one day we were technicians. And then we were not we were anything but technicians and totally out of jobs as managers and leaders, because we've never been trained for any of this nonsense. Well guess what? People are the resource, and we don't know how to go there first, and help them and empower them and contribute and see the ecosystem of cultivating resource through people first, it's gonna be tough.
CJ 1:06:53
I agree. I couldn't agree more. That that's, it's about the people. I mean, but the people can help us with the thinking. If we can open ourselves up to realize the people, there's someone smarter than me out there. That can be my solution and my resource. There you go. I'm good.
Mark 1:07:15
That's the magic. Yeah, I think we kind of came full circle on that. What does it look like to hire somebody better than you, it's to realize that that's you better figure out you have to define that you have to understand that the person is the resource. And if you start thinking of yourself as the owner of the intellectual property and the value, you've totally limited your system, you have to be the watcher of the community, and the cultivator or the steward of creating a healthy community of people who are resources and containers and contributors of all that knowledge. And even maybe, that same legacy of helping other people become resources for other people.
CJ 1:07:51
Excellent.
Mark 1:07:53
That seems like a wonderful place to stop. So I would love for you to share with the listeners, your passionate plea for entrepreneurs right now.
CJ 1:08:04
So my obsession is for entrepreneurs to live their best life. And my obsession is that you learn and think through what is your best life, because it can happen with EOS as a system and working with implementers. But I also look to all of the people that do what we do Mark as implementers we all need to think about what is our best life. So my passionate plea is used clarity breaks us, the people around you use that village, find that village to live your best life.
Mark 1:08:46
Well, that is so great. And I am so grateful for the time sugar for sharing that. Just a question of, you know, what do you want? What does winning look like? How do you get there? It's one of those things that it doesn't answer quickly or easy. It's a life pursuit and and I think the way that you interact with the community is equally infinite. So thank you for sharing that the time I'm so grateful for the time we spent together. But is there anything else that we didn't cover you wanted to share before we wrap this up?
CJ 1:09:17
Oh, we could probably do this all day. But yeah, no.
Mark 1:09:19
Yes. Yes. Good. Well, so if somebody wants to continue the conversation with you, and follow you what you're doing, how does somebody find you?
CJ 1:09:26
You can find me at well, there's I'll give you two emails. One is just Cdube@eosworldwide.com or my website and my personal is Cjdube@achievetraction.com. website is achievetraction.com
Mark 1:09:48
Awesome, and we'll have all that detail in the show notes. So that's it for today. Don't forget to subscribe and share with your friends anybody who could use this please get in their hands. We want to make sure we're sharing this with the, with the village make sure that we people grow. So we'll see you next time on You're doing wrong with me, Mark. Mark Henderson Leary. Thanks.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai