George Joseph is currently the CEO of both Common Bond and Positive Recovery. HE was CEO/Owner of Right Step Drug and Alcohol rehab program for almost 20 years until he sold it in 2012. He has had over 300 employees and over 30 million in revenue. He is currently growing both Common Bond and Positive Recovery to multiple locations and service lines.
The restaurant industry has experienced the biggest impact from COVID-19, but we've also seen several businesses from this sector innovate and rise up to the challenge. Today, I am joined by George Joseph, who is the CEO of Common Bond Bakery Brasserie Bistro. George has always been an advocate of company culture, and today he shares with us how having the right people, the right culture, and the right customer service mindest has helped him innovate and keep his restaurant going strong through this pandemic.
3:24 - There are two ways to react to challenges - you either get really fearful and curl up in a ball, or you get inspired.
12:34 - How do you cope with waking up every day not knowing if you have a business or not
18:05 - How George used the pandemic as a challenge to pivot and innovate his business
22:31 - Start with the basics - find the need and then solve for it.
25:27 - Similarities between the restaurant and rehab business
32:38 - Hire slow, and fire fast
40:29 - If you enable your employees, it hurts everybody. If you let things slide with one employee, other employees will be resentful.
47:13 - Keep looking for improvements and opportunities, but don't take shortcuts and don't get complacent
52:11 - Because of the pandemic, people are realizing that there's a lot they can do that they didn't think they could do before.
52:50 - George's passionate plea to entrepreneurs
"Understand your customer and provide the best possible service you can provide."
GET IN TOUCH:
MARK LEARY:
www.linkedin.com/in/markhleary
www.leary.cc
GEORGE JOSEPH:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgejoseph1/
https://www.commonbondcafe.com/
Production credit:
Engineering / Post-Production: Jim McCarthy
Art / Design: Immanuel Ahiable
You're Doing It Wrong - George Joseph
Wednesday, January 27, 2021
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, employees, restaurant, pandemic, person, business, customer, human resource, instagram, hr, curbside, changed, common bond, culture, understand, company, learned, restaurant industry, stay, feel
SPEAKERS
Mark Leary, George, VO
Mark Leary 00:00
So we're rolling, cool. We are live. This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson, Leary My name is Mark, I have a passion that you should feel in control of your life. And so what I do is I help you get control of your business. And part of how I do that is by letting you listen in on a conversation between two people who have a passion for excellence in the entrepreneurial world in some way, talking about a subject or subjects that you already know something about. But this time, we're digging in and getting into the details to allow you to understand what could possibly be holding you back. And so you can break through that ceiling and get control of your business and ultimately, live a better life. Before we dive in today, don't forget to subscribe, share with your friends, make sure you're giving us feedback, the good and the bad, we got to have both, we'd love the feedback, we got to get this content in the hands of the people who can use it. So for today, my guest is a guy I've known for many years and seen through many different phases of business. But background, George Joseph is has grown and sold an alcohol recovery program. And all kinds of journeys that went through through that that are just worth talking about. But over the last year has been in growing a second. Alcohol recovery, the positive recovery centers at the same time leading a small chain of restaurants, the common bond restaurant, so I got to know like as a consummate entrepreneur, I want to talk about and hear your lessons learned from 2020 as our first podcast in 2021. What What did you learn in 2020? And what stories do you have to tell us because you just been it looks like you've been killing it with all the things you've been doing in this difficult time. And you are so passionate about culture. So George, welcome to the show.
George 01:51
Thank you, man, Happy 2021 what I learned in 2020 is I should have stayed retired and enjoyed life instead of having a restaurant and rehab centers during a pandemic. But, you know, sometimes you take lemons and tournament eliminated, we were in the middle of growing two companies and you know, the toughest time in the world. But I felt like, you know, you you see the best in people and you sometimes unfortunately see the worst in people. But the same with employees, you see, sometimes the they rise to the occasion of the challenge. And I saw a lot of that in 2020. And so I feel positive and optimistic about 2021. And what we've created, and I feel like after the pandemic, it's gonna, like catapult both companies to the next level.
Mark Leary 02:40
So that's what we hope for right? Every time we go into a difficult time, we say we're just going to grind it out. And that way, when we come out the other side, we're going to be that much stronger. And and I've heard you speak on this topic, and I've known you through the years. And so I wouldn't say everything, but you always tell a pretty strong story of culture and mission and success. What were there any times in 2020? When you were thinking, Man, I don't know about this?
George 03:05
There are many. There are many. There were absolutely many times in my life, my wife would look at me and say, Why didn't you stay retired. But, you know, it's the fun of it is that, you know, it's the challenge. It's like I get inspired or motivated. I mean, I think you can react two ways you can really get fearful and roll up in a ball and say, Oh, shit, the world is, you know, falling. Or you can get inspired. And most of the time when I've been at my toughest moments, or lowest point somehow, you know, I don't know if it's God given but I have an ability inside to, to, like get inspired and to you know, really go full court press. I mean, you really got to push it and think every way which way things are going like we you know, I'll just use one example. And I'm ready to give it up. But when the pandemic started, I took over our responses on Instagram, I have I'm not really good at Instagram only got on it because of common bond. And we have like, different for the for the restaurant, or the restaurants for common bonds. So we have 28,000 followers, basically. And so they'll ask you like, how what size is that cake? Or you know, what is? You know, how many flavors Do you have of this? So a lot of things I didn't know, so I'd have to go to our team to ask what the answer was. But my goal was to always respond very rapidly, and to be responsive to our customers because you know, we were everybody was trying to figure it out, like all the dining rooms got shut down. So like what happens next? Well, we had our full service, because as a bakery, we have a line of pastries and entre maize and, and cakes and breads and things like that. So it's like we still wanted people to come in the stores. They grab things but just leave and we also Started curbside and take out and all the things that were that have kept us alive. And so on Instagram people are now with direct messaging. They're like, Hey, we they want to know an answer, like that moment, you know. And so I've done I think a pretty decent job of responding. And some of it has been actually creates opportunities, like we want to partner with you, or we want to do you know, some of it, you know, you just kind of pass on it. But some of the opportunities like television, I mean, we had some people reach out from television cell from radio, I mean, it's just, it's been amazing how communication is done nowadays. We just want to award from the bakery, Gil bakery of the year, and pastry chef of the year, and they've reached out to us on Instagram. So hey, we've been trying to get in contact with you. The gala is this Sunday, it was like on a Friday, I'm like, Oh, you know, and we weren't gonna tell you that you won. But we want somebody to be there. And so we had to scramble. Whereas if it was a, you know, if we had somebody just the clerk or somebody, you know, monitored Instagram, it might have got dropped. But luckily, we were able to attend the event and get the awards. And so it's, it's, you know, challenges, create opportunities, the way I look at it. So
Mark Leary 06:16
I really want to kind of stay in the dark part for a minute, and then we'll take the light part. So that was the question of, and I want you to think about that. Was there any part of the year where you thought like, this is terrible, this is not worth fighting. But also tie that into you said, and I'm very much about the positive side of this, but I want to kind of dig into the the worst, what was the worst you saw in people?
George 06:39
You know, I think it's the, you know, the mask, let's talk about the mass situation, when it first happened. The first day, we were able to reopen the restaurants and let people in and sit down eat, we were busy. We only had 25% of the table setup. But we were busy. And we had a troubled employee. And we you know, it wasn't mandated mask. And so that Friday is a Friday all days, I wish they would have started on a Monday, but they opened the restaurants up on a Friday, which was terrible decision. And that weekend, that day, we didn't have mandatory mask. And we had a troubled employee, who, his girlfriend and I didn't know it at the time, when a Friday at one of the restaurants they basically tried to block the parking lot is kind of like a little picketing that we were not safe, because of the mask and the people and things like that even though we were following the guidelines. So the next day, we've made the decision to mandate mask we bought we had mask at the door, if you didn't have one, we asked you to wear one. If you didn't want to wear one, we asked you to wait outside you can order from outside. And this one particular employee was supposed to actually watch the door and make sure people were coming in. And he had been a troubled employee and the manager General Manager and say, Look if you don't feel safe, because obviously the employees have to feel safe be in there. If you don't feel safe. You don't have to work. No problem. Well, he she caught him on a cell phone when he was supposed to be watching the door away from the front door. And so she fired him. Well, him and his, his girlfriend and their friends started piling on comments and you know, calling the fire marshal that we had too many people and all that stuff. And so that happened for quite a while they were posting on Instagram how terrible we were and didn't get my name, right. But then I was greedy and just out for the money. And they would try to come around and take pictures of the people inside the restaurant. Because once you had a table, you could take your mask down. So at that moment, I'm new to Instagram, I don't even know you can block comments. So we're trying to respond to comments. We're trying to erase comments. And, you know, might have been, I don't know, 510 15 people, I don't know how many people were following along. But then our regular customers are starting to get wind of you know, see these comments. And so we were just like really scrambling for a long time until we I'm reaching out to other eo entrepreneurs in the restaurant industry what to do. And finally we got the lady who ran our Instagram, I guess didn't know either that you could just block the comments. So we finally blocked the comments and then we had to work on our response and it took me days basically to work on this responsive look. These are all the things we do six foot rule, less tables. People are master employees take temperatures when they walk in the door. They answered a questionnaire we do all these things that you know I think make us a great culture. But that day in that week, was just miserable. It was so miserable because he made comments in the in the restaurant industry, you have a base salary of hourly wage of like two to $3 and then you have tips and so epic A person said, you know, you're only paying $2.50, or whatever it was, I don't remember what the amount was. And I didn't, you know, I understood, kinda. And so it made us look like we wouldn't pay. And these people well, with the tips, he was making $17 an hour. So when like, he would make money. So my check was in, he's responded on the Instagram. So you were spot, you're dealing with somebody who's got issues in front of the whole world, at least at least all our followers are 27,000 potential followers that are potentially seeing this. And so he only worked like 11 hours. That's why he made what he said he made, but it was 17 bucks an hour. Because you have to you put the tips on top of it, or you can pay a minimum wage or hire whatever you want to pay. But for people that are in the tip industry, they like it, because obviously it worked hard to get good tips. So some are customers like, should I give a larger tip, these poor people are only getting $2 an hour, you know, I mean, they didn't understand minimum wage or how things are paid. So from a dark side, that was probably the darkest moment is that you're, you're basically getting your integrity question. And you're getting your safety issues question and you're dealing with a pandemic that, you know, the middle of a, you know, the toughest time for a restaurant to even be open, you dealing with those kind of things, obviously, 99.9% of all the customers have been amazing, thankful and given, you know, tips to our employees, and, you know, understanding and patience, you know, the reviews were great. And then it gets to a point where people are frustrated. So you started getting some bad reviews or, you know, this, this person didn't, you know, get the sugar right or whatever, you know, whatever it is, so, you don't know what your responses are from the public but you do your best to deal with them. We you know, we'd see 1000s of people a week that are coming in or getting takeout and so it's it's a chance for those kind of issues to happen. But this was in May, and thankfully it all died down. And you know, we our reputation was not tarnished maybe about a few of those people. But we've kind of had to work through that.
Mark Leary 12:10
So Restaurant and Bar obviously are at the top of the lists that have industry's most hard hit by the lockdowns, and then anything related to Coronavirus. What's that? Like? Especially, I mean, I'm comparing compare and contrast now from you know, March April, May timeframe of like this could potentially turn us off. How do you how do you feel when you wake up every morning trying to trying to figure out if you have a business or not. You know,
George 12:39
we're blessed because it's fast, casual, and drive thru. We have a drive through a location we open and during the pandemic, which is smart on our part to do that it's good for our customers. But the ones that are most concerning are the guys are just bars, and are the fine dining restaurants, you know, fine dining this, you know, think of going to a steak restaurant for you know, takeout or curbside? It's any bit right. And so if you don't feel safe inside a restaurant, you're not going to want to go to that particular restaurant. Those guys have been hammered. They've been down there sales are down, most of them 60 80%. There's a room there's a status all recently that over 20% of the restaurants have closed since the pandemic. I mean, the more Yes, margins. Yeah, it's sad, because the margins are so small, there's so many moving parts. You think it's you know, you see a full restaurant, it's gonna be full and still not making money because you got to deal with the rent, the landlord's pile on the property tax, they pile on other charges, and you got all the food, the food cost and the labor cost. And so restaurants margin of profitability is very, very small. So you can't have a lot of hiccups and in your process. And so when the pandemic came, if you are not prepared to take some, some hits, you're going to close, so close. No, no, we're not fine. We are actually still losing money. But what it is, is that we were we were in the middle of a growth period. So we went from one restaurant to now six, and they were all at different stages in the last year. You know, two of them were being built to a more in rent of, you know, in renovation during the pandemic. And there's like, we went to the landlords and said, Look, we have two choices. We can stop construction, or we can continue and see what happens and they were like, No, no, please continue. Please continue because part of that is their money to build it out in order
Mark Leary 14:44
to build it. They don't get that payback until you pay them read back and the tea is basically exactly yeah,
George 14:49
yeah, in fact, one of them downtown. I wasn't going to open it, but they were holding on to 10% of the last portion of the leasehold improvements and I basically owe that to the construction company. And so we've now opened it up as kind of a pop up from 7am to 2pm. And, you know, downtown is kind of a ghost town in Houston. So we're hoping that, you know, January came today, obviously is the first day. So we're anxiously watching to see how many people are coming back to downtown because the the building owners are scared. They know they have to figure out ways to make them safe when people come in and out of those buildings to go to work and, and then the companies that have employees obviously got to make sure they're safe. So I feel like there's a lot of safety protocols are in place that people are safe going back to work in these buildings. But I think as a world, we're seeing that a lot of productivity can happen at home, or at work, or working, you know, in your office now that you live work, and you office with your family and your dogs and all that stuff. Do you want? Do you want to go into the office is the question. So I'm hoping there are a group of people that want to go back to the office because we were banking on downtown, we're in the building that has five tunnels. It's a brand new building, it's a waste management's headquarters, it's Bank of America's headquarters. I mean, it's a, it's a great place for us to be and we're excited about it. But it's a it's a ghost town, and our other new restaurant was at City place, which is where the new HP headquarters are, and Exxon and all those folks are there. So we're counting on all those people to be at work and they're not at work, either. So it's that's been even, that's probably been the most challenging the people in the Montrose In the Heights, they're, you know, they're eating, they're going to, you know, call on us curbside, or Uber Eats or doordash, or, you know, some of those ways to get the food to them. But the the places that we were opening, we're near business headquarters, big business, occupancy, and it's this not there. So
Mark Leary 16:47
every time I talk to you, I get the optimistic we are feeling fortunate we are making the most of this. But But tell me, are you still are you? Is this really just a minimize the bleedings play a point right now?
George 17:02
Yeah, we're minimizing the bleeding because we're building these restaurants that are not at capacity. Basically, we're, even though the state says you could be at 75% capacity. And I know there's a lot of people that are cheating on this, we're at basically 25% capacity, because the six foot rule, if your tables have to be six foot apart, you know, you can't, it's hard to have that much occupancy. And I know a lot of nobody's really checking it. But I, from our standpoint, we want to do what's right and what's safe. And so we're sticking to that lower occupancy. The great news is that now we used to have very little to go and takeout and curbside, and now it's like 60% of our business. So my hopes are my hope is that after the pandemic, we hold on to some of that curbside and take out business to continue as we fill the inside of the dining rooms.
Mark Leary 18:00
So that drive thru Was that something you created in the middle of the process? Yes, it was.
George 18:05
So basically I it was a thought you know, idea I had and and we were looking at planning it and then there was one that came open in the heights on 601 Heights Boulevard. And we jumped in and basically took over Elise and within a maybe six weeks or eight weeks we had painted change cleaned up the entire
Mark Leary 18:23
location was not eraider you till you took the entire location to get the drive thru.
George 18:28
Yeah, we there was a drive thru location that we just said, this is a perfect spot for us even though we had a restaurant, basically a mile a full restaurant a mile a mile and a half away. And you know, you could be worried about cannibalizing your own business, but it was a whole different model. And the drive thru is done really, really well. Because you know, 60 65%, or 60% of it is people just stayed in their cars. And then the rest, we have a patio and a small dining room that the neighbors are coming in and buying stuff and taking it home are they walking in and having having a little meal there. That one did not feel as risky. And in fact, that's what I'm focusing on now. We're in the middle of more expansion for the drive throughs. So we're trying to create more drive through so you can see more common bonds around around Houston with drive throughs
Mark Leary 19:17
so it didn't feel risky. It was there was there at a time in a very distressed industry.
George 19:25
No, no, not at all. We have an amazing product, our pastries and our food is so good. So it's the To me, it's the matter of getting it out to the public. And that's just one other avenue to get it to the public. We have as part of our expansion plan before a pandemic is we created a commissary so a lot of the cakes and the pastries and the breads and things are made off site and brought in every day fresh. They start baking at 4am and so for me to be able to afford the commissary I have to get the price doubt, because it takes less experts to be at one spot versus having them at each location. And so the drive throughs with just a natural. In fact, I regret I didn't do them sooner. But since the opportunity,
Mark Leary 20:13
the strategies ends up being lower cost common commissary for making the production that central and only have to have one and then minimize the need for very expensive retail space, and where you can just sell the product and not have to have all that kitchen space. Yeah, so you just need a hub and spoke model, you need more, you need more spokes to get the hub to be valuable. And you can get them reasonably priced because they're small. Retail Yeah,
George 20:37
so we call it a smaller footprint with a drive thru. Exactly. And people feel comfortable. It's amazing. You don't have six cars in line, you notice this all the time, even at Starbucks, they have eight to 10 cars in line and nobody's you know, at the counter for service. So if you want to get out of your car and run it and you're like, Okay, I could run it and get it faster than wait in line with some people like to be in line and you know, work on their phone and answer emails and texts, and they pull up.
Mark Leary 21:03
So I really want to unpack the thinking here. I think there's a lot to this. And I and I don't want to let the conversation get distracted into the tactics of running a restaurant, although that's interesting in itself. I think a lot of people are very curious about that. But I think the restaurant industry is a kind of laboratory for innovation. Because it It seemed to tell me about it, it seems friction free, you were just sort of objective like, well, people are gonna buy in their cars, that's not a problem. Like let's go get a drive thru. And and I don't think that that is that easy for people, a lot of people to adapt to I think that's real an adaptive thinking, what do you attribute that ability for you to just sort of look at the objective landscape and say, like, Alright, this is where we're going, is that how you always think you push yourself?
George 21:51
Yeah, I mean, I think it's combination of probably, you know, genetics and, and I, you know, my personality and, you know, leadership and, and obviously, learning all the, you know, business books and you know, things that I've read and in magazines, and you know, listening to people and you know, from Amazon to anywhere, you just you have to look at what's the customer want, you look at it from a customer standpoint of what they what they need, and what they're looking for, and then you try to provide it. I mean, that's, that's the whole service industry to me. So I, I feel like I've been a servant leader, since you know, I was my first job. I mean, it's our job to please the people we're serving.
Mark Leary 22:31
So you just for you, it's just a matter of you start with What's the need, and you can figure out a way to solve for and the risk is sort of, neutralized by the fact that you did a good job to lead.
George 22:44
Yeah, if you if you create a good culture, and you provide a good value, and a good service, then I think the customers come because that's what they're looking forward to. I mean, I, when I'm a customer, I'm looking for good value, and I'm looking for good service. And so that's what we did in the rehab business. And that's what we're doing in the restaurant is this.
Mark Leary 23:02
So what I want to contrast that because I have talked to plenty of people, and I've experienced it myself, I'm alone. It's human nature to be afraid of loss. And it's very difficult to see upside and potential for you, when I'm worried about what I'm personally going to lose. And so if I'm looking at my business, and I'm going, Oh, my God, how am I gonna make payroll? I need more capital, I need more sales. No, I don't I mean, I
George 23:28
don't I don't see it that way. I mean, I think that you can always, at least for me, I've been able to pivot to find what the needs are, you know, I mean, in my most of my younger life was in the rehab business. And, and I knew that if we provide a good product, there are people that need help. And so we created the same thing at my first company, the right step is that we had hub and spoke, we had inpatient facilities, and we had outpatient facilities. And I knew that the insurance companies didn't like people stay in an inpatient for long periods of time, but they would help pay for the outpatient. So we would start them in the inpatient, and then we would step them down to the outpatient because the more someone's in under care, the better their outcomes are in store as addiction goes. And so I just try to look at what the payer source wants, and then tailor something that I'm comfortable with ethically, and then provide that service at a great value. And I think those kind of things work in, in any kind of business. If, you know, you got to obviously do marketing and get the word out that you're doing it. So you're not just standing there waiting for people. But once the word gets out, and you provide a good service, then I think it spreads and in the restaurant business, that a lot of the word that's spreading. We don't do much advertising or any advertising is basically the word of mouth of other people and social media restaurants are really social media oriented businesses.
Mark Leary 24:52
I think it's your experts, Instagram. That's really where it's all coming from.
24:55
Yeah, yeah.
24:57
You got the best On Instagram,
George 25:01
my wife wants me to quit. To pass it on in my, we now have a full time marketing person, she wants me to pass it on to somebody else like just fine. I'm getting I'm getting close to doing that once we can afford it. Did you tour man? I
Mark Leary 25:15
think you can. So I think it's a good contrast. And maybe you can talk about the similarities, but there what are the similarities between the rehab business and the restaurant business? Are there any?
George 25:27
Yeah, I mean, it's service, it's, you know, one is getting people help and provide service. One is given hospitality we we have to provide hospitality our facilities because, you know, you people still deserve respect and hospitality when they're staying in your facilities, we have people that stay up to 30 days or longer, impatient. And it's basically like a hotel that we're providing counseling to. And the same thing at a restaurant they're having, we want to provide our number one motto is genuine hospitality. That's our number one core value for the restaurants and the same thing in the rehab center. So those are similar, obviously, got HR, you got marketing. So we're marketing, maybe two different targets, but it's still marketing. So sometimes we have joint meetings where the marketing teams meet with both companies, because there are times that the rehab marketing people give good ideas to the restaurant, people and vice versa. Because it's you know, you get an a different opinion versus your own opinion, you get somebody outside of your industry.
Mark Leary 26:29
Okay. Interesting, because what I've discovered a lot of the businesses I work with, when they struggle with growth, is becomes I say, the universal business problems, lack of sales, which means it's not always the actual problem, but it's sometimes it manifests around a revenue problem, we don't have the revenue we wish we had. So we need to sell more, which usually flows back into are we marketing well, and marketing is really about telling the story in a in a way that is low friction for the right person to hear it to know that the solution to their problem is available, right. So we want to we want somebody who has a need to know there's a way to get their needs met. And what I see consistently is the companies who that are in a leadership that is too distanced from their buyer than the person with a need, they're guessing. And they flounder in the sales and marketing process. Those those companies and leaders who who really are plugged in to the community of people that they're trying to serve, they either are one of them, or they live with him, or they're just sort of exude and absorb the the essence of their, of their buyer. They can just they can just conduct they can say this is what we're doing. This is why we're doing and everything, the product and the service and the language and the words and the culture all just match up to the customers and they have no problem growing, how deep it sounds. I hear that in you. How did you cultivate that? Is that been automatic? Or do you work on making sure you're plugged into your best buyer? customer? consumer?
George 27:55
Yeah, I think I think it was been a great learning process. In the old days. You know, marketing was here, this is how great we are. It's not that way anymore. It's what it's what your customer wants to know. You know, it's like, the storybook i think is the book I read was called the storybook or something like that. Maybe off but story ran. Yeah, story, man. So what's, what is that what you want to tell them? It's what they wanted to know about, you know, you know, you can have these great fancy brochures or websites, but it turns people off if they can't interact with it, or they don't feel like they they're getting their question answered. So it's been a great learning process over the years is to know, you know, what, what is it that the customer wants? What is it they need to hear to make their decision? Those are the things that are so critical. So like you said, to have your ears open to always be listening to ask questions to, you know, when somebody refers somebody to rehab center, like what made you choose us, you know, or what, why did you refer someone to us? Or if you chose us, why did you chose choose us, you know, and learn those kind of things that so that you can do them better? And in the restaurant industry, it was why, you know, when you come through and you have a great satisfied experience, what was good about it, you know, I'll quiz people. I like quizzing people where they're from before the pandemic, we have people from all over the world that would come into common bond, especially. One lady told me once he said, George, you know I love about common bond, is that I can be sitting and I can hear different languages and different conversations in the restaurant. Because we're so international that people even though they live here in Houston, they're they're international based, are they from other countries, but they love our pastries and our stuff.
Mark Leary 29:44
So sometimes I see people get stuck because they asked that question a couple times, because they're supposed to, not because it was automatic. More often than not, people don't ask me because they're too busy. They're trying to get to the next thing, or they're assuming and hoping it's good. I do find that people People ask a couple times, then and they actually sometimes there's some pressure to either power through that maybe it wasn't perfect. I selected you. And if you ask the real hard question, which is, did we deliver on what you wanted us? And well, that's, that can be scary. And I think that a lot of people personal experience is that sometimes when the bar goes really high, and somebody says, You know what this is, I came here because this was the very best, and I've never seen anything on this level, the commitment to try to continue to live up to high standard, that's a lot of pressure. Like, if somebody comes a raving fan, is the next person gonna be able to same raving fan of that last person like, I don't I just want to hope we can do good enough work. Not amazing work, because I can't keep amazing all the time.
George 30:48
Yeah, that's where culture comes in.
Mark Leary 30:51
Yeah, so let's talk about culture. So, so yeah, that's a big, that's been your thing through everything you've ever done? Yeah, it's about people. How do you get the culture conversation started?
George 31:02
Well, I think it's one is setting the core values of what you're looking for when you interview someone to make sure it's a match. But then they have to be this, hey, if I want them to be similar to IBM, like, hey, if there's trash on the concrete on the parking lot, do you walk by it? Or do you pick it up? You know, those are the kind of things that if I'm doing it, I want the employees to see, oh, he's doing it, I better do it too. But it's how to get that feedback too, from the customer to the employees, that they hear it without getting defensive, and then utilize it. So for us, the employees are kind of our customers, too, right? So when someone resigns, we do an exit interview, because we want them to, that's usually the time they are most honest about their feedback on how we serve them as a company. And the loyalty comes from providing the good environment, and then the loyalty is what helps keep the standards up. And then obviously have to have the policies and the core values to keep those things consistent, so that everyone hopefully has that raving fan experience. And and when there is a blip, you know, you know that I've given out gift cards, because we our service has not been good, or you know, they've been problems. And, you know, we address them as we go. But for the 1000s of people, we see it a week in the restaurants we are odds are really, really good.
Mark Leary 32:27
Really keeping the culture strong. What are the blind spots, the places where you get dinged, you think you're awesome. And they go, No, you're not awesome. We're still working on what are some ways that are tough for you to get to a culture where you want it to be, is basically not foreign to people that you need to fire fast. Okay, hearts
George 32:44
are slow and fire fast. And when you make a mistake on hiring the wrong person, and then fit your culture, usually it's pretty obvious, but you have to make make those decisions. And it's, it's awkward, because you don't know who that it's like, you know, it's like, Who's behind the closed doors, you know, this guy, this person may not be the greatest but isn't on the other side of that door? How long will it be? Or will we get somebody that's even better? And, and so I think that's the hardest thing and culture is one to listen and give feedback to the to listen to the feedback and to make progress, you know, like little things. And sometimes it's the simplest things that make a difference. But like our HR person does this amazing newsletter, and the newsletter in the beginning, the front of it was all about how great we are. I'm like, No, no, I want the first parts of the newsletter to be about the employees in them what was great about them. So now it's like, Who's the employee of the quarter employee of the month and, and then now we have where the managers can write examples of the employees core values, like living the core values. I love that stuff. And so like today, I walked in one of the restaurants that I knew somebody got promoted. And I wouldn't have known that if I didn't read the newsletter. And so did you get a promotion recently? And he's like, Yeah, and I say, Man, congratulations, you know, and then when I left the restaurant, I said, Hey, congratulations again, on your promotion, because those are the kind of things they remember is that you made that special touch when I sold my company. In 2012. I gave a quite a bit of money to all employees, we set we split it out based on seniority and things like that. And that was great. And everybody was grateful, obviously. But the thing that they remembered after the fact was that every employee, I would send a birthday card with a $20 bill in it. And so that's what we do. Now. We still we do it. We still we started doing it a common bond and the HR folks it was like you sure we want
34:50
to do this? You know, it's still a $20 bill.
George 34:53
Yes. Then we put a $20 bill in it. So it's like, you know, they were worried about handing it to him. And you know how to It's gonna get, but I didn't want to mail it till like, okay.
Mark Leary 35:06
So I mean, there's two, there's two things that I want to not step past. And one is that, that how to do those nice things and how to decide because a lot of people always the handwritten note like, well, if your handwriting is terrible in certain there there are people I think if you look at the some of the most notable leaders in history, they could remember 1000s of people's names and birthdays and kids names and like, well, I can't, I can't I'm not even gonna try to do that, because I cannot remember that many names. So understanding how to, you know how you figured out how to move your recipe of things to recognize people. But before that, I think I personally think is more important to start with making sure you fire those people who don't fit. How do you make sure you don't get stuck in the system doesn't get clogged, fill a non core value fits? How do you make sure that those get cleaned out?
George 35:55
I think that I think the simple one is to have more people interview, like we had a we had someone that was running our new at one of our newer restaurants. And it was funny, because the first day I met him, he was there oriented. And I just met him and I had a bad feeling. And I didn't interview them. And so when before they hired him, and I regret that I didn't go to them and say my president and my HR say, I don't think this is a good fit. And sure enough, it wasn't a good fit. And it took a while to find a replacement. And so that time they asked me Hey, can you sit in on this? Can you interview this person as well? new job out of that one? Yeah, so it but the person we have now, she's freaking amazing. And so it turned out well, but it's like how much pain that we go through. By having that person in it, the higher the level that you can't work, I mean, it's the longer it takes to hire that person. And so to run a restaurant, you got to have somebody that's really sharp and, and it just wasn't a cultural fit for this guy. And you know, we were at the farm A while back, but it took a while to get to the point where we can make that make that switch so it seamless.
Mark Leary 37:13
So who's we I mean, I really want it because I know a lot of leaders, a lot of visionary leaders, and it's a known thing in the EOS system. We talked about the visionary and the integrator, the visionaries tend to be big picture and very inspirational, highly motivated towards good outcome. Yeah, very difficult for a lot of visionaries to fire people. in assessing the data of like, you know, this person really has been late five times we really are firing them. And we're the visionaries like, wow, no, you don't understand that's a tough time. So how do you on the leadership team? Make sure is there somebody who has that role? Do you? How do you make sure nobody kind of gets put in the closet and stays there, like as a terrible culture fit for weeks on end?
George 37:53
Yeah, I think the HR is the one that you got to empower the most human resource knows the employees. And obviously, you need one that's very objective, because they're kind of the advocate for the employees with the leadership with the ownership, but they're also the person that has to, you know, execute the accountability. And so in this situation, it was our president, Chris, and our human resource director Shay, you know, they basically knew that it had to happen. And you know, it took them a while to find the right person. But once they did, they were ready to make the move. So
Mark Leary 38:24
the President and the head of HR, so tell HR is a function that I find varies widely, in terms of what people expect from it. So when you say, HR, tell me a little bit about the roles, what do you expect? What are you expecting from that leadership position,
George 38:40
human resource, to me, leadership is critical, because they are the quality control of all your employees, they are the gatekeeper for the quality of your employees, and how the culture is exercised. So one of my early mistakes was two things. One, I didn't invest enough in the technology of business, the business. And number two, I didn't invest in the human resource. Most businesses, small businesses, like I was in the beginning, the person who did HR was the person you trusted with payroll, because they knew the salaries in the payroll and the HR person, you know, your concern, because there are people that may make more money than the HR person, it's very common that there are a lot of leaders that are more highly compensated than that human resource person. So obviously, the human resource person has to understand the role and the dynamics of it. But that person to me is as important in the leadership team as anybody else because they are truly the gatekeeper of the work or the fuel to your engine of their employees. And so I think a lot of people underestimate the The beauty of HR, the benefits of HR. Now, some human resource folks, to me are a little too soft. Or they're not. They don't if you want to care for your employees, but you also have to hold accountability. So we have a situation with one of our companies where the human resource personnel, we feel like is not company oriented enough, like they buy into too much for the employee, which is good. We want them to be an advocate for the employees. But if you enable your employees, it hurts everybody. Because if you let things slide with one employee, the other employees get resentful. And what happens to their performance? They go like, oh, Sally is always like you were talking about early Sally's always late. I'm, I'm not going to be worried about being on time. And then you're chasing everybody to be on time. And then you're like, oh, Lord, why? Why is nobody showing up at eight o'clock when they're supposed to? So human resource done? Well, is so critical.
Mark Leary 40:57
So how did you get there? Because what is expensive to get somebody who's very talented and passionate, and it can be an extension of the CEO into the culture, it sounds like you've been able to do that. And I don't find that very often it besides accompanies your time, even 30 $40 million dollars is not that easy. How did you get there? And how did it and your mindset, you know, did you realize you're gonna have to pay a lot of money that people aren't used to paying in that position? or How did that come about?
George 41:22
It's just, it was just pain. I mean, it was a pain point. Okay. If you don't do it? Well, I mean, the lady I had in my original company that was kind of the administrative person, her nickname was ankle biter. I mean, she was too company oriented and not employee or damage, she would tell employees stuff that probably now this was in the 90. So probably nowadays, it wouldn't even you know, it'd be in lawsuits, but she was just too tough on the employees. But you know, we trusted her with the finances. So it was a painful lesson to learn that, hey, you had to differentiate those roles, that payroll could be done by the financial people. But the caring of the employee, and the records and the benefits and things that are all circled around employee has to be somebody who really understands that. And that's typically Human Resource
Mark Leary 42:14
Manager, to encourage people to not use titles, because titles, people think they know what it is, but a CFO is or a CEO. And it's like you don't because there's no actual clear definition of that. And human resources is definitely in the category of, Oh, I know what you mean. No, you don't. And so there's this concept of the integrator, which is really about making sure people are accountable. And being data driven. Your HR person sounds to me almost working towards Chief of Staff, somebody who is really capable to understand No,
George 42:48
I mean, I've been fortunate the person that common bonds been with me, since the, you know, I got involved a CEO common bond couple years ago. So she's kind of filled right in. And so it's been a good match. I don't think there is much of a chief of staff as more of an advocate because someone would have a supervisor and they have an employee in the cheese kind of in the middle, where she watches understands both sides of it. So she can empathize with the supervisor, she can empathize with the employee, and then tries to make that conduit because they're sometimes it supervisors have a hard time explaining or holding their employee accountable. And there's sometimes employees have a hard time talking to their boss about some of the issues that they have. And you know, to be effective in your job, if you have issues with your boss, you've typically won't be that effective. So let's get it out on the table. And if you don't feel safe going directly to your boss, then let's, let's go to the human resource person. So
Mark Leary 43:47
a referee coaching. Okay, sounds like that's kind of the play there. How does that play into the authority of say, the president who is more likely in my mind, and maybe not in your world, but in my mind, the President is going to be sort of the spice in this, like we're an HR person is going to have sort of data, and the President is going to be like, we can't do this. And this leadership team is going to have to execute and get the nonsense out. Is that how it plays out? Sort of like, in?
George 44:14
I think it's a team? Yeah, I think it's a team effort. I mean, if the, if the HR and a supervisor can address it and deal with it, and that person's not a fit, then they can deal with it. But yeah, ultimately, the President, the CEO, the, the, you know, the buck rises, there's trouble. It rises, it doesn't drop. So yeah, so hopefully, things are handled at the lower level. And if not, they'll eventually come up to the higher levels and the higher levels have to make a decision and then people have to execute them.
Mark Leary 44:41
So how does how has that played out over the last several months of the pandemic? Have you had to change accountability and HR strategy, given the pressures and what you know, what's that been like?
George 44:53
It's been, it's been COVID. I mean, it's been how to deal with people in quarantine. You know, You know, making sure you have employees to show up, you know, to do their job and they're safe. You know, if they're having a, you know, been around somebody that's COVID we don't want them near anybody, either, you know, patient from the rehab center or from the restaurant perspective. So, we've had windows where people we've been out of people for to work for two weeks at a time or whatever is for it. Yeah, 14 days of quarantine. So that's, it's been challenging. And so the human resource is becomes a recruiter, employee placement. We have people moving from different locations to help each other to, you know, to fill in and, and then, you know, the the person who's always telling everybody about the CDC, right, these are the CDC guidelines, please follow our guidelines, because a lot of our workforce is younger, especially in the front of the house to serve the, you know, at the restaurant, comment bond. So they're like, Well, you know, what, pandemic, you know, I'll wear this mask, but what pandemic now like, Hey, we want you to save for your eight hours of work, but we want you to save for the other, your other hours to your other 16 hours of life.
Mark Leary 46:06
Yeah, for lots of reasons, just because you want people to be in good shape, but also because it affects their safety, your safety at work. So this is, this is such a great auspicious day, year. And I've just had nothing but great conversations, since you really over the last couple of weeks, but we'll kick it kind of culminating today, around such great energy, I know that it's not over. And especially for restaurants and hospitality, we've got a lot of masks in our lives. For a while, we've got a lot of hospital and medical challenges in a lot of people's lives.
George 46:44
I'm much like you said, I am looking at safety and slow growth. To get through this. Don't make mistakes, look at what you have to do to keep keep keep the focus on what's important. Now, as you plan for later in the year when the pandemic hopefully is over. But, you know, a lot of people, when we started back in March, they thought, Oh, it's gonna be done in a month or two months, we'll be back to normal. Yeah, it's gonna be a year plus, that we're in this way of living. And so keep looking for the opportunities, keep looking for the improvements, keep looking for ways to be prepared and to be you know, like you said earlier, you know, bucket down the hatches and in, you know, get less keep getting through this without getting complacent and, and thinking it's all over too soon. Because those people are gonna pay a big price if they, they take too many shortcuts and get too complacent. So, again, we go back to human resource. She's like a broken record, that all people are listening, but it's, you have to be safe. And you know, my family's the same way they're like, they concerned about my safety and make sure I do what I do. And you know, we're gonna get through this and toward the end of next year, you know, what we've learned in this year, how it's going to play out, we don't know how many people are going to stay, don't use an Amazon and you know, online versus coming in how many people are going to use curbside versus coming into the restaurants, I don't think it's gonna be like a light switch. I think it's gonna be a gradual return to what it's like, but not what it was like before.
Mark Leary 48:27
So I think that's all potentially. But there's a lot of truth in all that. Everybody's learned something about themselves and the world. We know that. But what I've also find is that when we particularly doing long term planning, an annual session or a quarterly session, we go back to our vision document, our vision, traction organizer, and we look long term, what are what are our core values? Where are we going 10 years from now? What do we What's our three year picture? Who's our best customer? And you know, what's our one year plan? And when we answer answer those questions so often, and even in the height or depths of the crisis, so little of that has changed. And it was kind of nice to realize that, you know, even in the height of chaos, we had a plan and we can stick with it, and what drives drove us then still drives us and the things that we need to do to be successful, really haven't actually changed into the playbook is still there. You know, when we're underdressed, the plays we rehearsed. So there ends up being kind of this contradiction of what we've learned, and what we've now realized it really never changed. Has the game changed for you? Or what what have you learned about that relationship between the new knowledge and the timeless knowledge?
George 49:36
I don't think the game has changed. But I do think that the, the, what I word it the weaknesses changed, like you didn't, people didn't tolerate things that doesn't work. And I think that's why you've seen a lot of places close because it's like, Hey, that was a marginal business before so it's definitely not going to make it through this pandemic. That was a marginal employee. Before, you know, this is a time they need to be stepping up, this might be a good time to let that employee go, we had a person that resigned recently, and the team in that department voted, which I love to not replace them, that they felt like they could do it without that person. So from a company's perspective, you know, we saved a salary. And hopefully we'll share some of that salary, they were able to achieve it, and give them a bump, because that took a lot of courage and commitment to the companies that, hey, we don't need to bring in another person, we can do this job without that person being here. So that's what you want. That's the strength you want. So when you come out the pandemic, you're going to remember hopefully, that loyalty that they show to you, and hopefully the company will show it back to them as you get through it.
Mark Leary 50:52
It's such an interesting story. When I sort of rewind the year, the uncovering of things like, well, the formula hasn't changed, innovation still the same, we still need to look at what our customer needs, like you said, and this, this, the only difference is we've got to cut through some fear. And so we got we got our tactics change, I gotta go get myself unafraid, back. And now I can innovate a lot better. If I let the news into my mind, that throws me off my game a lot of people tell me like, and number one thing I learned in 2020, they don't watch the news, it does not help you feel good every day. turn that on. So there's there's things there's tactics that change about how to do this stuff we already knew, with your payroll, you can't have extra p but we knew that. But when we were really disrupted in our life was on the line, we tried stuff that that we wouldn't have tried before. You know what, this is really great. We've saved a lot of money, we were wasting money, because we were just a little bit lazy in some of this. Yeah,
George 51:52
yeah, the A lot of people are realizing they don't need to have as much travel business travel, because they can just log on to zoom with and deal with it, still see the people, you may not have the same same effect, but you don't have to go stay in a hotel and get on an airplane. So some of that's gonna change, I think for,
Mark Leary 52:11
for me, I take in exactly that message away, that I can do a lot remotely that I couldn't do before a lot. And I know the power of in person, and I want to play that card appropriately. And, and not dismiss it because it's powerful, really getting people in the room is very powerful. And you make you have a nice mix recipe, I can work with people all over the I like don't like the time zone CFCs I like to stay kind of North America, in my time zones, you know, Western Pacific through eastern time zones, but other than that I'm not constrained anymore, and getting on a plane is much less common. Man, we've covered a lot of ground here. What, you know, thinking about 2021, and what you've learned in 2020, what is your passion?
George 52:57
I think that passive playing goes back to,
53:01
you know,
George 53:02
understand your customer, and provide the best possible service you can provide. So that, you know, business, having business or having revenue can help you make mistakes, you can't make mistakes, if you have very little revenue. If you if you have a business that's doing well enough to get the customer, then you could you have room error, you know, little room to have error. But if you don't have the business and the cash flow, you can't you can't have a business. So I think it's marketing, get the business and make sure you execute as well as you can.
Mark Leary 53:42
I bears repeating and emphasizing that that revenue you've gotten ahold of comes through your hands dirty work, getting those customers, clients, patients into the program with a rich experience that it meets their needs and your understanding of what they need. And so that's I think I talked about this a lot, sort of the singularity of sales and marketing in the early early days, you have to have a great unity from a leadership perspective around what they need. And then you can you got to do the work to make sure you're delivering something and you are a great example of like, you know what, everything you said is particularly in the first, you know, 20 or 30 minutes of this conversation was, well, we decided we knew what they needed. And we knew what they knew. And then we could execute on what we know knew the people needed and until you have that confidence. It's it doesn't work. Yeah, well, man, I'm so grateful for all the time. George is so good, so inspirational. I every year I always love our conversations. If somebody wanted to conversation with you or kind of track what's going on. How does somebody find you they find you on LinkedIn or your website or is there a way that people just kind of follow what you're doing in your Instagram?
George 54:57
direct message, but I think we And you can find me or my email is CEO at George Joseph calm.
Mark Leary 55:05
It's pretty easy, awesome app. See, go ahead. Go ahead. It'll be it'll be in the show notes CEO,
George 55:10
CEO George Joseph comm send me an email. I'd be great. Awesome, awesome.
Mark Leary 55:15
Well, that's it for today and we will see you next time on you're doing wrong with me. Mark Henderson Leary.
VO 55:21
This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson Leary for more episodes and to subscribe, go to leary.cc