Former educator, realist, and wine enthusiast, Mackenzie comes from a diverse background of behavioral intervention, teaching, and business development strategies. As part of a project within the Klein Independent School District to launch a new behavioral program on several campuses, she found her niche in wanting to help others grow their strengths within their career. Drawing from experience in several industries, Mackenzie brings thoughtful, visionary, and practical coaching within developing organizations. When the stakes are high for a new or veteran executive, a troubled team needs intervention, or transition needs to take place, she can provide planning for the future while simultaneously improving day-to-day function. Her sensitive insight with tough issues defuses tensions and catalyzes collaboration.
As entrepreneurs, sometimes our biggest enemy is ourselves. Join me and Mackenzie Childs as we delve deep into how our own limiting behaviors can sabotage our growth and success, and how to accept that above all else, we are only human.
3:47 - Mackenzie explains Cognitive Behavioral Coaching
11:31 - Why do people initially resist Cognitive Behavioral Coaching
21:18 - What is a limiting belief?
34:35 - What happens when reflection and getting to the root of the problem is not enough
44:13 - Three questions you need to ask yourself before making a decision or taking action
53:03 - Recognizing the things you can control, and the things you can't
1:01:27 - Don't strive for perfection, strive for excellence
1:07:26 - 10 Ways to Accept You're Human
1:14:15 - Mackenzie's passionate plea to entrepreneurs
"Recognize that everyone's perception is their reality. When you figure that out, your business and personal life is going to be so much better because you'll understand how to interact constructively with so many different people."
Specializing in Cognitive Behavioral Coaching, Mackenzie would like to introduce the audience to this field and cover a fundamental of her practice - the limiting belief.
If you want to know more, please download a copy of "10 Ways to Accept You're Human" here.
GET IN TOUCH:
Mark Leary:
www.linkedin.com/in/markhleary
www.leary.cc
Mackenzie Childs, MSc:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mackenzie-childs-msc-58367912b/
www.blinkcoaching.net
Production credit:
Engineering / Post-Production: Jim McCarthy
Art / Design: Immanuel Ahiable
You're Doing It Wrong - Mackenzie Childs
Wed, 11/11/2020
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, question, thinking, learned, coaching, understand, called, beliefs, behavior, cognitive behavioral, limiting, problem, client, find, business, person, objectives, limiting belief, rational, unpack
SPEAKERS
Mackenzie, Mark
Mark 00:00
So we're rolling, cool. We are live. This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson theory. And my name is Mark. And I have a passion that you should feel in control of your life. And so what I do is I help you get control of your business. And part of how I do that is by letting you listen in on a conversation between two people who have a passion for excellence in the entrepreneurial world, talking about a subject you probably already know something about. But this time, we're going deeper. And we're getting into the details, and unlocking the confusion, and really allowing you to understand how to get the most out of that subject. So you can start to get what you want from your business and get what you want from your life and break through that ceiling. But before we get started, of course, please don't forget to subscribe, share with your friends get this content in the hands of those people who can use it, all of your feedback, all of your sharing is so valuable. And I'm so grateful for those of you who have given us such great feedback. So my guest today talk is talking about a subject that is at the forefront of my mind all the time. And we're talking about this concept of limiting beliefs. Anything that's self defeating patterns, things we can be doing to work against ourselves, the visionary entrepreneur can like myself, and many of my friends and clients can get to a spot where we know that our talents have gotten us to a spot, but now they're starting to work against us. And there's certain things we know we're doing that aren't really helping us. So Mackenzie childs is a former educator, realist and wine enthusiasts self described. And McKenzie has a really diverse background of behavioral intervention, behavioral intervention, teaching and business development strategies, and really has found her niche wanting to help others grow their strengths within their career and business life. And so we're going to talk about all kinds of fun stuff around cognitive behavioral coaching and things like that, that I don't fully understand. But welcome, Mackenzie, I'm excited to hear what you're more about that?
Mackenzie 02:11
Oh, well, thank you, Mark, I'm super excited to be here to kind of give you a better description of what cognitive behavioral coaching is. I know, that's a lot of big words. And that's what typically people tell me, they give me this look, that's like, I really don't know what you're talking about.
Mark 02:29
So what are you talking about? And we're talking about the whole conversation was predicated on people getting out of their own way. And, and so how does that help people see where they might be getting in their own way?
Mackenzie 02:42
Oh, my gosh, okay. So there's, so let's count the ways. Um, but basically, what cognitive behavioral coaching is, is it's the bringing together of coaching with concepts and methods underlying cognitive behavioral psychology. So number one, I'm not a therapist, I am a coach. And what I do is not typically delving into the past of, you know, getting you to understand what you've experienced in your life. It's only looking forward and thinking about what you have created, like, what is your baggage, and let's unpack that baggage a little bit, but only in the sense that it helps you to really get your objectives down, I mean, to meet your goals, and that's really what we're talking about here. So the premise of all of this, is that how you think impacts how you feel, therefore impacts how you behave, or how you act.
Mark 03:45
So that again, I want to make sure we unpack all of that.
Mackenzie 03:47
Yeah. So how you think or your cognitions? Right. So if we're talking cognitive behavioral coaching,
Mark 03:55
thinking, not thought things that things are bouncing around in our mind that are very easy to understand and see and maybe turned into language?
Mackenzie 04:01
Yes. impacts feelings, or emotions.
Mark 04:07
Okay, which things are probably harder to put into words?
Mackenzie 04:10
Right, the those internals which impact your behavior, or the actions that you take, so cognitive behavioral through this chain reaction, right? So my way of doing things is, okay, do we change the behavior because it seems like we're only changing a symptom at that point, we're not really going to the cause. So we have to go through this chain to change the way that you think and impact the way that you behave. Does that make sense?
Mark 04:42
Yes, it does, for sure. So I've learned a lot about me so many years ago, I thought if communication is very intellectual, I mean, it was that was it. It was the words and that was it. And then I got kind of exposed to the idea that the emotional channel was really important as well like, how much what was my energy like when I was telling somebody something and were they did they I think I was mad at them because I was excited about the subject or even aware of my emotional aspect of communication. So I learned a ton about that. And then I then that third ingredient you talked about is, well, what's actually happening? Like, you can feel something and you can think something and say it was, and then but then what would you actually do? Like, I'm really serious about upping my game, I'm really serious about making more phone calls. I'm really serious about communicating more often. And if you go look and say, Well, did you communicate more often? I didn't, what were you what was the emotional intent high? It was was the was the, the intellectual and it wasn't really rational it was, but it didn't happen. And so we got to get all three, as it turns out, so I like what you're saying there. So continue.
Mackenzie 05:40
Right. And, you know, it's like when you stand in the shower, and you replay all of the arguments that you've probably could have won, but didn't. That's what we're trying to avoid is those like shower moments where you're like, man, I could have said this, or I could have said this, or, you know, this is how I would have done that. You're really in that moment, you're rationalizing a lot of what you could have, if you if your emotions or your behaviors didn't take over. Do you follow? Yeah,
Mark 06:09
yeah. Okay.
Mackenzie 06:11
So my coaching is a process that supports the client in their work in their life goals. I mean, I basically want my people to be what they want to be whatever that is. And I challenge their thoughts and their approaches that may limit their current growth. That's, I mean, that's really it in a nutshell. And my questions and my methods, they develop new ways of thinking, that are more aligned with their objectives. So when you develop new ways of thinking, therefore, you develop new ways of behaving. And we decide what their objectives are, what their goals are, and they create a plan with them. So
Mark 06:51
So, you know, walk us through that? Well, how does how does that start? Well, sounds pretty simple, right? What you're doing is not working to your benefit, reprogram it and go from there.
Mackenzie 07:02
Right? So I mean, it is very solutions focused. anyone at any stage of their life can develop new thinking patterns. So you know, the saying of an old dog can't learn new tricks. That's not true. Because in psychology, there's a concept of neuroplasticity. That means that you can learn at any stage of your life. And so we take that premise. And I have what's called a deep dive in the in the beginning, and it's a two hour session. And basically, what I do is I assess their way of thinking. So I and we'll go over this a little bit later in this conversation, but I write down specific quotes of what they're saying to me during the session. And I label them according to the criteria in which I've been trained to do. And from there, I can depict how I want our sessions to go based on their ways of thinking. And I pick very specific and individualised methods, questions, rationalizations that help them through their ways of thinking that may not be helping them
Mark 08:13
a couple examples of what you see and highlight,
Mackenzie 08:17
okay, recently, I had a client come in, and they said, Well, I'm just really challenged with starting my new business. It's like, Okay, um, I asked them, you know, the basic questions in the beginning. So my deep dive is kind of like a smart test, if you've ever taken one of those smart tests online, and it gets harder as you as you go on. And then after, you know, you can't really answer any more, that's when the test stops. I structured it the same way where I asked them these surface questions in the beginning, you know, how did their business come to be? What was the purpose behind it? You know, what would they like to see those kinds of things just to get to know them a little bit better? And then I ask them questions that kind of probe the behavior that I see that they're giving me. This particular gentleman, he's 55, and he's starting a consulting business in a whole new state during COVID. I mean, just all kinds of, you know, the odds against him, right. So I said, because he was, I was probing him the whole time, for emotionality. I wanted to try to get a rise out of him. And not that I was I was kind of being antagonistic because he was so stoic, and he would just not he wasn't talking to me at all, and giving me those surface things but continuing to give me the surface things even though the smart test was getting harder. And so I I don't know what compelled me, but as a coach, I mean, and you know this that you have to ask those really hard questions sometimes. So I said, Do you find it hard to let people in And he just kind of looked at me and shot for a second and was like, What? I'm like by your response and your hesitation, it seems to me that you, you do. And he says, Well, yeah, that would be true. They said, Okay, well, well, we'll stop there. And He kind of looks at me. And he's like, Well, what does that mean? He's like, what did you find? Like, you know, what's wrong with me? I said, Well, let's see how the challenge of building your business actually attributes, your limited beliefs, like we'll talk, we'll get into that a little bit more, but your limited belief of not allowing people in or your, your lack of trust, or, you know, some because that could filter into delegation. I mean, if he's got people underneath him, and he can't let people in, he's not going to be able to delegate to anybody. I mean, there could be a slew of chain reactions. And it all comes back to I don't let people in that's, that's a limiting belief. That's a thought that's a cognition. Yeah. So then what are his feelings behind that? Okay, well, he becomes, you know, very reserved, he's like, Oh, my gosh, I'm anxious. I, I don't like this feeling. And then his behaviors are not delegating, keeping everything to himself, making himself you know, the only one that could ever do anything. So that does that kind of illustrate the chain? Does my
Mark 11:31
immediate curiosity is Do people ever resist what you've encountered there as something that they write, that's actually a strength, not a weakness? That's not a problem? That's actually a secret to my success?
Mackenzie 11:42
Oh, my gosh, you're reading my mind, because there was a gentleman in here the other day that he was the exact same. I said, Well, you know, does that is that something you want to change? And he goes, No, I like myself. Okay. Like, well, Okay, then. And I said, always, the disclaimer, at the beginning of my deep dives are, you may find some things that I say, you may agree with, you may not agree with, and that's okay. You know, this is just my job to kind of put them out there. And he was like, No, no, I like myself. I don't I don't see that as a problem.
Mark 12:19
So where do you go? I know where I go with somebody on that situation. But where do you go with that?
Mackenzie 12:23
Well, it because I take a more behavioral approach. And I try to do some sort of questioning around that. So instead of being didactic, and saying, No, you this is a problem. I question around it. And I say, okay, does everybody feel that way? What has that worked for you in the past, and you know, those those questionings that just kind of like, get them to think about it a little bit differently. And sometimes it amazes me, those types of people will come back and be like, you know, we'll really what they'll say is no, I don't need your services, thank you, especially when they learn, you know, how much it costs? And they'll say, No, no, I'm good. It's okay. And then a little while later, they'll email me and say, you know, I had a conversation with my spouse, and they agree with you.
Mark 13:18
Yeah, that's interesting. So where I go with that is, because I'm usually dealing with business related problems. And there's usually some pain and frustration. But still, it's it's, I don't make any assumptions about the state of things. And so the question has to be, well, are you getting what you want? Like? Are you meeting your own life's purpose? And are you are you maximizing your impact? Because there's no, there's really, there's always a cost for change. There's a huge adult, for every cost, there's a benefit, every benefit, there's a cost. And if you're going to change yourself and do something, it's gonna it's not gonna be the money. That's not the hard part. It's gonna be the introspection and figuring out what works and what doesn't. And so like, Don't embark on the journey, if you're getting everything you want out of your life, in terms of your family, in your personal gratification in the business. But if there is something there, that's that you want more, let's let's talk about that and see if Is there something that you are attached to, that might be something that helped you get here that could actually be an impediment to getting what you want? you now can earn the right to weigh the cost, you can say, absolutely, it's worth the change, because the goal is high and amazing. And I can and I can change how I interact with people or, you know, what the benefit is does not outweigh the cost of the change. I'm actually perfectly content where I'm at, and that's a very bare answer. I when I talk with people is like, you know, don't don't embark on the journey of change if you're not really motivated to get what that can unlock for you.
Mackenzie 14:52
I mean, the best quote that I've ever heard is when you have to drag them in, you got to drag them around. I feel like sometimes you want to allow them to see what is hindering them eat. But how can you do it without putting it in front of them and being like, this is this is your problem. You know, and so I totally agree with you on that when, you know, sometimes you just gotta say, yeah, I mean, if you don't want to change it, you don't want to change it. And that's totally fair. I try to rationalize that with like behavior and, and cognition. So you know, that's just my approach to it rather than, you know, you saying, Well, I mean, okay.
Mark 15:39
Yeah, and I struggle with what you said, they're dragging him in drag and drag him around. Because even if you don't drag them in, sometimes you get to a spot where you feel, I feel like I've kind of see the solution, and the person in front of me is not willing to go there. And and it's always a recipe for for bad outcomes if I try to force it to connect the dots. And what I've really learned is that people have to find their own pace. And you can say, yeah, this is something you can look at, this is something you could investigate and get some reflection, get some feedback from here, like your spouse, your business partners, is this work, and it's a good thing. And, and I've definitely had those things. I definitely had things in my personality that I thought were kind of my brand signature come to find out they're like, but not that helpful. People didn't really like them. It's like, Oh, this guy's tough. Like, no, he's a jerk. It's not the same thing. Right? So I've really had to learn that about myself and and finding people that they might have to go on a journey to go collect the evidence for they come back and say, Okay, I see it, I see it now. And now I can now I'm willing to do the work. And if you do too soon, it's not. It's not helpful.
Mackenzie 16:46
Well, and I really like how you said that, you know, some of the things that you believed that were your brand, your signature, were actually not. And I mean, I'm kind of interested in how you came to find that, because that's basically what I do with all of my clients is that I give them practical tools to understand cognition and emotionality, something that's not measurable. And so just Can you tell me a little bit about your the way that you did it? And then maybe I can follow up with some of my methods?
Mark 17:19
Oh, well, there's, there's many, but the one that goes, that goes, that's kind of out in front is my degree of intensity. And when I get going, I get going. And it's, it's, it's, I think, in certain circumstances, you know, if I'm on the stage, the intensity is helpful, and people in the back of the room can can get it. But if I'm a little disappointed or irritated in something, and it's kind of full on intensity, it can be quite damaging to somebody who takes it personally. And what I learned about my, this is actually a relatively recent stuff, this language for it is, it's binary for me that I don't do a great job of regulating the my degree of emotional intensity. If I'm a little disappointed, it's almost the same as being completely devastatingly disappointed in terms of how I react. And so I'm having to really go back and say, like, Alright, how big is this problem? What would an appropriately sized reaction be to the size of this problem? And make sure that I'm aware of that because up until recently, it was just sort of like, what's the difference mean that a mistake or a problem or disappointment is just not acceptable? And I and I'm not going to accept any of that. And, and that has really been very damaging.
Mackenzie 18:29
Yeah, in cognitive behavioral coaching, we call that catastrophizing. So you actually, you know, go from zero to 60. Very quick, and it's a catastrophe. If you know, something that happens, you're you're maximizing the, the situation to, you know, this is the worst thing that could ever happen to me. And so I've wondered, I think, I don't know
Mark 18:53
for my catastrophizing and I do kind of know, because it tends to spiral and people that I see that I don't spiral, I just lights on, like, this is a problem, that should never have happened, it should never happen again. And I move on. And I'm, like, I let go of it. And I don't ruminate. I don't, it doesn't stick with me. But the person I just talked to, they might be, they might be what just happened. That was a comma. It's like what's gonna happen if something really bad happens. And so, you know, that's, that's the issue. Yeah. And it's been described to me that there's a switch that like, when I get, like, like, I'm fine until I'm not, and there's a switch happens and then like, oh, and so I'm trying to be aware of that. And I know the switch. I know in retrospect, I know what it was happened when I'm in sort of I don't know what the word I need any words for this, but it's fixed problem mode. It's my job to be authoritative, authoritarian and authoritative over fixing the problem of scolding somebody and in essence, and it comes across as uncompassionate I think and and overly harsh.
Mackenzie 20:01
Yeah, and I don't mean catastrophizing is in a way that you know, everything just is awful. That is actually a blanket statement for different categories of limiting beliefs. So, real quick, I mean, let's just kind of dive into that a little bit. So most of our thinking habits are built up over a lifetime, right? And we reflect on these beliefs that are not entirely our own. Like you said, my, my branding, and everything really wasn't what I actually thought about myself. So some of these we pick up from our parents, and other influential adults in our youth. And basically, what I do is I just check to see if these approaches are still, you know, these that are attainable, subconsciously? Do they reflect your core values? Do they reflect the things that you actually care about? Do they reflect the things that like I said, I want my people to be the person that they want to be? Does this limiting belief support that? Or does it you know, obviously hinder, which most of the time a limiting belief hinders a bigger picture of beliefs is a learned belief. So everything that you've ever learned in your life is learned the one that hinders is a limiting belief.
Mark 21:18
So I like to think even just the limiting belief phrase, because if you unpack it, you say, what's a limiting belief? And the answer is, well, depends on what you what you're limiting. And the assumption built into that is, you're limiting your impact in your own intention, like what impact you would limit, you're limiting your intended outcome, you are not limiting someone else's dream, you're not trying to be somebody else's person, but you you are trying to make an impact you are trying to grow your life, grow yourself, do something in the business or personal world, that is x x height. And if you an X impact, what behaviors do you have that are not helping? And that's an alignment problem. And so that's the whole idea, I guess, if What if you what you're telling me is that the inventory processes? Does this what you're doing still work? Because it might not might not work at all? And then there is like, even if it does kind of work, does it? Does it align with what you're trying to do in your life in business, or wherever else?
Mackenzie 22:15
Yeah, exactly. And that's the perfect example of why the coaching piece is important. And it's not therapy. So we're therapy, it's more like, okay, we're understanding what this does, we're unpacking the past. But why so we go into the coaching piece of it, that's okay. These are goals, these are your objectives, these are the things that we're going to get going. And these are the things that are holding you back. So we're going to, we're gonna fix that. And basically, what I do is I try to take it from the workplace perspective. So I don't really say I'm a life coach. But a lot of the times these concepts that you see in the workplace can be trickled over into your personal life as well. So although I do try to take it from the workplace perspective, sometimes it just bleeds over and we just go with it. I mean, I wouldn't want to hinder that development at all. I mean, if you're a better communicator in the workplace, then, I mean, you go home and your spouse is like, Wow, he talks to me, like, you know, I'm an actual person.
Mark 23:22
Do you have people because I've found this sort of weird phenomenon that if I learned something about raising a child, I immediately find like, wow, this is very similar to something I learned about management. And then and then, you know, relationships, the same kind of thing. I've even dog training, which is a whole other subject, but I was like, Wow, what's, you know, it seems like it should be totally different material. And it's like, it's not it's all dog training, child training management relationship. As it turns out, we're all human beings. And but I do think that for myself, I've compartmentalised some of those habits and behaviors, where maybe something I do at work is going okay, and I forget to bring it home, and I should bring it home and vice versa. Do you have Do you see either side of that, where people are really good at one part of it, and then they just totally ignore the other part?
Mackenzie 24:10
Yes, I'm actually it's a psychological phenomena that is called generalization. So typically, this happens in development. And it happens when your prefrontal cortex and they'll be in the forefront of your brain doesn't develop until you're about 26. Now they say
Mark 24:32
it's a slower now than it used to be
Mackenzie 24:33
right? Like, like, apparently it was 21 then it was 25. And now it's like 28. And sorry, guys, but it's like 30 to 40. So they say but I mean, there's a lot of in psychology is really just theory. We try to put people in a box and not everybody can fit in that box. So they say that it happens when you're about 2827 some Some people, it's earlier, but basically what that is, is a lot of your decision making processes a lot of your Oh, my goodness was the late
Mark 25:09
gratification. Logical, logical, logical
Mackenzie 25:13
thinking, but also problem solving, you know, context clues, those kinds of things. So what happens in there is called generalization. So you take from one box, like your work box, and you're like, Okay, these leadership skills that I work on when I'm in the office can also be applied when I'm trying to teach my children you know, so that's what that's called is that
Mark 25:36
it just sort of abstract it into essence out and use the common ingredients, the common elements in other places,
Mackenzie 25:42
take what you want, leave what you don't and use it in a different box is Does that make sense? Does?
Mark 25:48
Yeah. So it sounds like I should have a strong command of this by my age, you should
Mackenzie 25:53
try. But although that those are not typically concepts that are taught, I mean, when did you go to school? And someone's like, we're gonna learn about generalizing your thoughts today? I mean, like, nobody kind of points that out to you. So it's just something that you're supposed to learn. I mean, it's, it seems baffling to me, because until I sat in a psychology class and learned about it was I like, Oh, my gosh, I cannot do that. And then I felt like I had a one up on everybody, because I was like, Oh, you're not generalizing very well. Or you're over generalizing and thinking that, you know, everything applies to everything. Yeah. So you know, it's, it's kind of funny, but, um, and an example of that would be okay, you're in senior management, and you feel inadequate, because you don't have a university degree. Okay. So I see this all the time. And this goes back to that learned belief from your parents or a teacher that said, and if then statement of, if you don't have a degree, then you won't reach the top of your career. Right? I mean, we've all heard that. And that's a learned belief, now it becomes a limiting belief. When you've truly do feel inadequate, and it keeps you from rising to the top it, that's when we have to intervene and say, Okay, hold on, like, how many people in senior management don't have degrees. I mean, we try to we try to rationally go through this a little bit. And that's the that's, that's my coaching style. I mean, that's what I do with people all day long. And it's really funny, because a lot of the times I learned a lot about myself, as, as I'm trying to carry these people through these rationalizations, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I really thought about that at one time. And so at the same point, like I'm getting the coaching while they're getting the coaching, and they don't know that they're helping me just as much as I'm helping.
Mark 27:56
Yeah. So this is this concept of observation, I think. And it's interesting how sometimes it feels like maybe all the sciences were trying too hard. But that's not what I'm finding, I'm finding that when we, when you get to when you get to some part of your professional entrepreneurial career, you're stuck, everybody's stuck at some point. That's why you implement the entrepreneurial operating system in your business, because you want to break the ceiling. And so you want to be your best and you're going to get stuck. And you got to use some tools, and kind of what I'm hearing is, and what I've experienced is it's really valuable, as we get into real adulthood to have a sense of both emotional or all three, the emotional intellectual, and what do we call the doing, you know, kinetic side of it? The action? The action? Yeah. So yeah, the actual action on the spot there. Sorry. Yeah. So the, the action, the thinking the emotion, and then and I, what I think is so interesting, is that I had a good friend of mine, many years ago, kind of coaching me through a particular issue, and he just was doing this real simple reflection exercise about I would say something, I'm too much of this and you say, okay, is that true? Then I was this default question. And we would just sort of examine the past and sort of write down, like, what was going on and so much and half the time what I, whatever I had was saying, was not actually true, at least not consistently. And so just taking some time to sort of unpack what my actions were, what I was feeling, what was I saying? And just reflect and observe was enough to sort of be like, hmm, I'm not, I'm not doing the right thing. saying the right thing. I'm not saying what I mean, I'm not saying was true. I'm not that I, I don't have a low standard, all right, you know, whatever it was that I was saying at the time, I think I care too much about what people think. I think that was actually the essence of it. And he was like, Okay, let's talk about who you care about and who you don't and put some real facts so that it was illuminating just to do that. Mm hmm. And,
Mackenzie 29:53
I mean, these are things where it's like, okay, I would take those specific quotes. That you just gave me of, you know, I, you know, I can't or you know, a long winter, you know those like those all or nothing's right? And then I would say, okay, those are thinking errors, and we call those limiting beliefs. And this is how I would talk to a client. And I would just say, Okay, this is a limiting belief, like we have just identified one. Then typically what we do is we go through an exercise where, okay, we have a current situation. All right now, tell me what that is. Now, tell me what your goals are. Okay? And then tell me what you want to come out of that. So what are your strategies? What are your actions from that? So three steps, current situation, goals, strategies and action? And then that's how we kind of described what is a limiting belief and what is not. And we create that foundation. So when people develop these errors in their perceptions, their irrational views, and they lack perspective, basically. And it's kind of my job to allow them to regain that. If we refer back to the chain, these thinking errors lead to unhealthy emotions that limit constructive behavior. And construct
Mark 31:21
a battery. Yes, construct that's so subjective, what constructive behavior is, you have to have a plan for that.
Mackenzie 31:27
Yes.
Mark 31:27
How often you find people aren't quite as aware, clear on what, what they stand for. And what, what that what that construction would look like,
Mackenzie 31:37
that's most people, honestly, I mean, most people just kind of do what they're told. And they don't know that they're actually just kind of going with it. And they think that they're being independent, but they're not like that they're under the, and I don't mean to say this, and kind of a bad way, but they're under the thumb of a spouse, that, you know, the spouse is just trying to make sure that they're getting what they need. But the spouse may not understand. That's not how they need it. And so you know what I mean, I see that a lot, or, you know, senior management that, you know, says this is what we want your job description to be you fit seven out of the 10 criteria, and we're just gonna, you know, give you professional development for the other three. It's not okay, well, this is what you're good at. And then we're gonna disperse what you're not good at, amongst other candidates,
Mark 32:31
right? And in EOS, we would call that delegate and elevate, what, what are you great at, and let's get you more of it and what you're not great at, let's get it somebody else who is great at it.
Mackenzie 32:41
So it's just one of those things that other times I've worked with kids sometimes that will say, you know, I can't get my, my schoolwork done. Well, what are we doing? Okay, well, we're on the computer. Well, why? Well, because I would rather do that then. Then do my schoolwork. Okay, well, why? because it's easier. Okay. Well, why? And so I keep asking these questions, eventually. And this is a client that I had, she goes, I am not confident in giving oral presentations. Like it got that specific to from I just want to be on the computer to I just don't want to do it because I'm not confident. Okay? All right. Now, here's where we kind of unpack these things a little bit, where some people might treat the symptoms of, Okay, let's put a schedule in place, let's, you know, do something which those things aren't important. But if the child or you know, the client, in any regard doesn't think that they can, how long is that behavior actually going to stick?
Mark 33:48
Right.
Mackenzie 33:49
And you know, if her confidence doesn't actually change, she's not going to do the schedule.
Mark 33:54
Right. So that's, that kind of brings my next question, which is, on the spectrum of awareness is enough to the other one, which is like it the nut doesn't seem to want to crack. So how do you like, oh, like a cop? I don't have I don't have competence. And oh, you know what, but I should have confidence. I'm glad this has come to my attention. You know, I am quite competent at this. And I'm gonna go to certain myself, and we're good to go. I'm sure there are some people who were kind of like that you just once they wrote it down, they had some awareness, they were able to kind of push through and build some confidence and go, and there's other people who are dislike, I think we need to up your medication, because we're not getting there. And how does that play out for you? Because I mean, because coaching is sort of like, like this reflection, but for a lot of people just like it's not enough. What do you do with that?
Mackenzie 34:44
It's, it's so hard. So for the ones that are, you know, oh, yeah, I need to develop confidence. I still really want to make sure that it's the constructive behavior. You know, how are you doing that? So that's how I I would follow up with them just to make sure that everything is sound. But for the ones that are like the up their medication,
Mark 35:08
I say that we are laughing about it. But a lot of entrepreneurs are in real therapy for really good reasons. And I recommend it. I'm a big fan of all kinds of therapy for self reflection, therapy and everything, it's all good. Gino wickman, the author of traction was the system that I teach. And he's the same way as like, if you don't have a therapist, it's a mistake, you get a therapist now. And so a lot of the visionaries I work with really struggle with keeping the reins on themselves. I mean, they're trying, they're sure they know how intense they are. Yeah. And it's and they're like, you know, it's, it's not easy.
Mackenzie 35:42
with that. I mean, I always want them to learn how their thinking can overpower anything. So with that, I would try my hardest to allow them to become an impartial observer of their own ways of thinking. So it's, you know, when you ask somebody, okay, just take a step back. Okay, now what I do, what they're like, What do I do? And I take that step back, like, Okay, I'm here, like, um, the 360 view of the car, you know, when, when you like, on the, what is it the monitors, when you can see the car from up above? And you're like, Okay, the camera above me, but I always do that.
Mark 36:25
Yeah. anomic view of the Yeah.
Mackenzie 36:28
Where's the camera? It's kind of like that, if you can take a 360 view and step back. Okay, great. What do you do with that? And so it's getting my clients to say, Okay, in this moment, are my thoughts rational? Okay,
Mark 36:49
I'm gonna pause on that second, because I remember that whole idea of observation and taking a step back. Yeah, mine's me. The first time I had some, a coach with a with a therapeutic background, many years ago, called me out on something about my emotional communication, which is actually where I learned to the concept of emotional versus versus intellectual communication. And, and so she kind of had unique insight to me, and I got through quite a lot that year. And she asked, she said something, the fact that maybe this this year is free is the year that you work on yourself. And I just remember thinking, what is that? Like, I know how to work on a car, I can't know how to work on a process, a document a brand, a sale, I like what is working on myself, it because it sounds so conceptual, and I just didn't, didn't know where to start. And, and I think in retrospect, it was so foreign, the concept of true self observation, the way you're describing it, where if it hadn't, hadn't done it at all, didn't didn't know what I was looking at, like looking at the universe for the first time, like, what are you going to do with astronomy? Well, have you ever seen stars before? If you let's start there, and then so what am I supposed to do with all these stars in the sky? Well, give it a minute, you're, you're gonna have to get a concept or what they might be and what they might mean to you. And, and I really feel that I just was so lost in that moment, I think, you know, it's been probably 20 years since, since I first had those conversations. And now I feel like I know very clearly, looking at patterns and behaviors and observing them learning them, I've got this whole library of things that I know about myself, but at the time, the library was completely empty. And if it's like, go start working on that thing about yourself, what it's like, I don't have a clue anyway. So So, you know, back to that, and I want the I said that for people who may be either have a whole library don't take for granted, that's valuable. And those of you who are sort of like for the first time like, now, where do I work on myself? What do I start? Like, it's okay, if you look at the stars for a minute, you'll start to see some patterns and after in by a minute, and may mean a month or a year year for something really big pops out of you. But that observation is so it's the only required ingredient for creating change.
Mackenzie 39:09
Yes. And that is so important that you say that because I do get clients sometimes that will come in and be like, okay, I'll say, Okay, let's just take a step back, it's gonna be fine. Just take a breather, take a step back. And they're like, What do you mean? What do you mean, take a step back? Like, how do I even do that? And I was like, Oh, so then we kind of just take it from the very beginning of, Okay, let's figure out how we can practice. You know, I guess disconnecting from ourselves. And that that's a skill in itself is, you know, to be the camera above the car. That's a skill in itself. And I think that is that is a concept that we do take for granted sometimes because I do have people that say, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to I don't know how to observe myself.
Mark 39:57
So I think it's I think that skill isn't isn't just a solo endeavor. I think it does involve feedback. And it does involve external evidence that can allow you to start to pick up on clues that because you might be able to sense when you do something, but if you don't know what happens as a result of you doing something, you don't know what that means. But if you figure it out for a while, every time you do something, people stop calling you back, or they, they call you back more frequently, then you can start to put together some patterns, and then you can be more powerfully observant of yourself, but you have to have the whole cycle.
Mackenzie 40:28
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, that's kind of where my questioning comes in. And I say, Okay, well, let's let's, you know, kind of step through, I guess, walk through this one a little bit. And then, you know, you get to that point, and I'm like, okay, and they're like, Yeah, I was watching. Like, for me, I've watched myself in the moment. And I, I know that that's when I'm disconnected, because it's almost like I'm in the third person. It's almost like I have it's, it's a psychological phenomenon called dissociation. So it's like, I have disassociated myself disconnected myself from whatever it is that's happening in the moment, I put the pause button on, and I'm watching myself, and this all happens in an instant. And then it's like, Okay, cool. What do I do with that? And I mean, in that moment, some people have enough forethought to say, okay, is this is as good as it's helping me. I mean, my mom was when I was a little kid, but always say, okay, is that going to help you? Is that going to hurt you? And so those are the two questions that I ask, every time I get into that, you know, third person view. And then as I started to go on this journey of cognitive behavioral coaching and learning a lot more, and through my education, I was more privy to the fact that this is an actual thing. Like people, this is a psychological thing. And then I was like, Okay, this is actually a thing. I'm not crazy. And my mom wasn't crazy when she said to do it, so, um, you know, kudos to her. And then it's like, okay, but what do I do now? Okay, the helpful and it's hurtful. Okay, let's expand that. Let's make that more adult, let's make that more of a coaching experience, as simple as it is. And it said, Okay, now, is it rational? Is it logical? Okay. And is it empirical, reasonable question, right? Because
Mark 42:26
probably assume that you it is rational came to mind, I'm rational, and those of us like me, who just sort of pin their identity around being rational, can be quite destabilized to realize that not everything we do and say, is actually as rational as we thought, right?
Mackenzie 42:39
And sometimes we we go to great lengths to rationalize our behavior. And, you know, we can self rationalize, but in that moment, okay, if it's rational, then that means that there's a law in the universe that everybody thinks this way. And if you can answer that question, then Okay, let's move on to the second question of, is it empirical? Now? Does everybody react this way? Is there evidence supporting my rationalization? Is it empirical?
Mark 43:15
So first question, is it logical? Is it logical? Second question, is there is there evidence just manifesting somewhere that I can observe and
Mackenzie 43:23
write? Because, you know, you can, you can say all day, yeah, it's rational, it's logical. I got this. But then Okay, next step. Next Level is, is there evidence backing that up? Like, can you really, really soundly make that decision in that moment? And then, if you can, then this is where, you know, Mama childs comes into play, and it says, okay, is it helpful? Is it truly helpful? And if you can answer all of those questions when you are the car, the camera above the car, and that happens in an instant, I mean, those things, you got to go boom, boom, boom. It's hard. It's a lot more
Mark 44:08
an example that comes to mind about and how that would play out. Um,
Mackenzie 44:13
okay, so let me see what I had a client come in the other day, and they said, they had a fight with their spouse, and she was moving jobs. And he was saying, okay, you know, we're not going to make enough money. And you need to get something that is going to make enough money. And she was like, but I want something that's going to make me happy. And so they're in this fight right now. And she wanted to get so angry and say something hurtful to him. And she said, Okay, I put on the pause button, he cut and she goes, I probably paused for a little bit too long because he stared at me. He's like, staring at me. And I was like, Well, yeah, I mean, you're just Kind of you're taking a breath, you're taking a step back like in, when we come back to the real world, you have been sitting there for a couple seconds, maybe a minute or two. And yeah, the person that standing in front of you is probably going to be staring if you have a person in front of you, but she said, she stood back, she paused and she goes, Okay, I was gonna say something like, you don't know me, this was a mistake. I don't want to be married and you know, something catastrophic, you know, like something really hurtful. And she goes, Okay, is it rational? Okay, well, what are you rationalizing? Are you rationalizing the job change? Are you rationalizing the statement? Like, what are you rationalizing? And she goes, Well, I rationalize the statement, like, okay, is it rational to say that I don't want to be married to you anymore? That, you know, we have that I want to get a divorce or, you know, whatever. And she goes, Okay, the answer to that was no. And then, the second thing was okay, is it empirical? And she said, Okay, well, you know, the divorce, wouldn't there's no evidence that people get divorced over, you know, over like, you know, I mean, some people do get divorced over money. But you know,
Mark 46:15
that's pretty means a lot to me, I can see that because the first question is, like, a sort of sort of sanity check, am I connecting the right dots? And then if you go to the empirical side of things, it's like, in the world, is this stuff? Is this something people do? Yeah. And so am I even on the right track? Like if, is there evidence that maybe I should really investigate this? Is this is this how this type of problem is solved? I think is kind of where that's
Mackenzie 46:38
exactly, yeah. And then is it helpful? I mean, and that one should be either, you know, that it should be very quick. It's a yes or no. And she was like, okay, and I unpause the button. And I said, I think we should resume this conversation at a later date. And she was able to make a decision. That's like, a whole process of what I'm trying to teach people is okay, now we take a step back. Now, we asked those three questions. When we come back, what do we do? Now we have to figure out what was our limiting belief? What is our objective? And now Are we going to stay the course of that objective? And what decision Are we going to make? And she did all of those things in minutes. Now, that's like,
Mark 47:24
he was second two hours. Everything's in slow motion. This has helped me because I feel pretty good that I can at least acts the intention, intentional question. I'm kind of saying like, what outcome do I want to create here? I'm always going back to that, that this is this is a tense situation. And I'm trying to say like, when this gets to the next step, what do I want that step to look like? As opposed to how do I want to feel, uh, based on how I felt a moment ago? And that helps me but I do think there's something to the visual nature of all right, is what's where's the logic piece of this? Maybe I can find some maybe I can't. But let's go to the universe, the universe universe is bigger than the world, it's going to experience world, let's go to the experienced world and say, like, does this kind of fit the facts of normal pneus? And how things are generally resolved, which could lead there could be lots of bad behavior out there. You could observe Yeah, people do react to these spousal situations with threats of divorce. That's kind of normal. And then you find the final question is, that's not like this, but I guess it can lead you to like, based on the normal, like, what are the good outcomes? And I think that's actually what I take away from that. If you do find there is empirical data data, it might be the data that says that much more not to do it. Yeah. Yeah, people try this all the time, and it doesn't as good. And so given the outcome I would like to create, how do I feel about that plan? Now, maybe I should do something different. And I love the where she ended that with basically, I don't have a plan now. And so that means I'm not going to do anything, which is the smart thing to do in that case.
Mackenzie 49:08
Yeah. And, again, it's like when we talk about generalization, okay, she was able to do that at home with her spouse. So if we were in a session, and she told me about this, then I would say, Okay, let's try to apply that to something in the workplace or give me a different situation in which that those strategies may work. And then we kind of tried to roleplay through those. And then the next time she gets to the situation, maybe it's a manager who's arguing with her and she says, I want to quit, you know, that's a very, very similar situation. And now you can take what you learned at home and apply it to the workplace. And so it's just me expanding that toolbox that you know, now you can really become your own coach and say, I've got this I can do this. Like these situations don't bother me.
Mark 50:04
Yeah, well, you put you in control. That's the that's the whole thing of what I want people to feel in control of their lives. Yeah. Which is its own formula. Part of feeling can control your life is understanding what you cannot control. And so that's, that's a whole other thing. But to fret to anybody who doubts the idea of how much you can control your life, no, that's not a doubt, there's a lot in your life you cannot control. So the feeling of control has to do with acceptance of what you can control and putting your eyeballs virtually, mentally, or otherwise, on those things you can. And if you can gain a little control of your own reactions, which is in the basket of things you can control most, then that's, that's real power, that is a sense of, of fulfillment. And
Mackenzie 50:46
that's being the person that you want to be and taking your personal power back, like you said, and that's huge for all of my people, because they come in there, there is what's called a locus of control. And I'm sure you've heard that before where it's like there's it's either an external or internal locus of control, if you have an internal locus of control, that means that you are the one that things come from. So you're the one that makes your world you create your world and all of the consequences in it like that it is solely your choice, an external locus of control is the world happens to me, these bad things happen to me, people don't like me, okay, no. So people come into my office, and they have a very external way of looking at things. And they find it funny. And I kind of it's very elementary, but I take a hula hoop, and I put it around their body. And I say, this is everything that you can control in the world. Congratulations. You know, and it's just so that it's just so true. And so it draws that line of that locus of control where, you know, the hula hoop is your circle. And that's when it becomes internal, anything outside the hula hoop is external.
Mark 52:06
So that's interesting in terms of opened up a whole can of worms with as, say, you're the head of sales, right? And your job is to close a bunch of deals, which involve a bunch of signatures that are not going to be signed with your hand. And so you're you that is outside of your control. And so there is always this question of, I'm going to set goals that I'm going to heavily influence and own outcomes of, that have a large amount of variables that are truly outside of my control, and I'm just going to live with that. How do you help people find the healthy balance of of that kind of thing, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get that promotion, I'm going to get a great job, I'm going to get a degree and things a lot. There's a big, there's a slider of how much control and influence is in there. How do you get people comfortable with? Oops, tap the microphone to? How, bonk? How do you get people to find the safe, proper balance.
Mackenzie 53:03
So this is where the fun begins. is, you know, after you do the hula hoop exercise, a lot of the times those situations do come up and it's like, but But uh, you know, my kids and, and my and my job, and you know, all of these things. So yeah, the signatures are a big deal, because, of course, you feel like the messenger and like, you know, you really don't have any control. But we have to recognize that you don't have control. Right? Think about the powerful the power of that statement, you don't have control. So how are you going to get the power back? How are you going to allow yourself to feel in control? And again, the signatures are an external factor, correct? I mean, that's something that you cannot control. It's external. What's in your hula hoop? And so I take a client through, okay, what could you do? I mean, what are all of the possible ways in which you could get these signatures? What, you know, what are all of the possible ways in which we could work this out? Okay. And a lot of the times, the client really does have the answer. And I'm just the one posing these questions. And it's like a puzzle. And I was always really good at puzzles when I was a kid. And I love the challenge. I mean, I love Tetris. And now my Tetris is packing the back of my car when I'm going on a trip and, you know, putting things in the dishwasher and I love that. I love those little puzzles. And so when you work with somebody on okay, how are we going to solve this problem? How are you going to get your power back? Because once you know that you have done everything that you can do? I mean, is there any better feeling then I did the best that I could. And I didn't strive for perfection, I strove
Mark 54:48
for excellence. Okay, so we've got an identity issue here. So the identity issue is, did I associate my identity with the goals or my reactions and activities That's not that easy to discern, I don't think it's not for me. And if we and I think what I'm hearing you say is set the goals, but your goals are external to Yep. Now figure out what your contribution is to that, map it out and set your identity in line with your actions, thoughts and feelings, to make sure you are not limiting yourself. And then and then like you said, if you did everything you could, if you follow the plan, and things were outside of your control, and a pandemic hit, you say, like I did, not too bad would happen. But if that did, you would have the ability to sort of say, like, well, I'm still me. And I still know that I can do what I did. And I'll have that with me that, like, if I need to do the behaviors, and I need to have the beliefs, I can do that. And, and I won't be able to overcome a hurricane, I can't do that. I can react to it, I can overcome Panda, I'm like, I can't do that. And that's, I'm gonna have to let that stuff go. And that becomes an acceptance,
Mackenzie 56:03
right. And you can work through it, absolutely, you can work through it, you can try to find the best avenues, you can come up with a plan B, a Plan C, you know, but for the most part, understanding that you have personal power through all of it, that's the confidence that's the self self acceptance. That's all of what we're trying to combat here. And that truly is the magic of what we do in a in all the sessions and understanding that every human is fallible, every human is going to make mistakes, there's, you know, the most logical person can be incredibly illogical sometimes. And those are all limiting beliefs. And I really like how you said that it becomes an identity issue, because a lot of the times I can usually diagnose limiting beliefs right off the bat, when somebody says, Hi, my name is and I procrastinate. I'm a procrastinator, I had a, I had a client that she called herself, the ProQuest, a baker, she baked cookies. And she goes, I call myself the ProQuest, a baker, and I was like, Oh, my gosh, I was like, funny, but we're gonna change that. Or, you know, their other identity issues of, you know, I lack confidence, you know, there, it's been ingrained in them so long, I'm bad at math, I'm bad at scheduling, I'm bad at keeping time. All of those have become a part of our identity, because we've believed them for so long, that those are all limiting beliefs. And people have now lived through that, you know, I'll never be on time. I'm always late. All of these things that we say about ourselves that we categorize, those are our identities, that's an identity issue, and then they're like, Oh, we could never change that. I can never be on time. You know, I, it's, it's Wow, it's, it's incredible to me, because like I said earlier that neuroplasticity of learning new things, that doesn't change until we pass on I mean, like, until we die, like until your brain dies.
Mark 58:23
Bro, we can learn and grow.
Mackenzie 58:24
Yeah, and you don't always have to be the procrastinate, Baker?
Mark 58:28
Well, that's true. So I want to I want to kind of put a fine point on the 10 ways to accept your human, which is this kind of this concept that you're starting to open the door to, but I want to put that against the backdrop of repetitive failure. And if you're like the head of sales, or if you got somebody who's the head of sales or a sales rap, or probably sales rep individual contributors suffer from this a lot, Mr. quota three quarters in a row, and or are missing the last couple quarters. And it's like I'm trying to get a hold of my own self limiting beliefs and all that. Do you encounter Pete? You're coaching people to have compassion and understand that they're human? And do you have sometimes situations where they're still it's a third quarter and they still missing quota? And how do you handle that scenario, where it's a seemingly contradiction? Hey, you're human, don't beat yourself up. And yeah, you probably need to hit quota.
Mackenzie 59:21
Yeah, I mean, I do see that a lot. And it's hard to draw that line. Definitely. Because, yeah, you want people to be a realist about themselves. And you want people to understand that the world is just not a perfect place. But there, you still live in society. And so there's still societal norms, there's still things that you have to get done. There's still you know, things in which they, there's expectations of you. But going about that in a way that okay, is it a thought issue? Are you still lacking confidence, okay, if we're not, then maybe it's a process issue, then maybe you know what I mean? So we just really try to diagnose why these problems still occur. And if the goal really is to make this quota, the third quarter, Okay, then let's do that or do you really think that this job is for you?
Mark 1:00:11
Okay. Right. That's that seems to be the part of your, your limiting belief is that if you've got a context that keeps creating, right, this this sort of fact in this case like you are an underperformer, like you are and underperforming. And if you don't want to be an underperformer, you're gonna have to change the context and perform in another context.
Mackenzie 1:00:32
Definitely. And so then we find strengths. And it's like, Okay, if these strings don't align with the goals of the job that you want to do, if your objectives aren't aligned with the job that you want to do, why are you still in that job? Why are we still here? Okay,
Mark 1:00:46
let's right. That's the question. Yeah. Why are you Why are you still in this job? Exactly? The path for me and you haven't figured it out yet? or pass for me? And I haven't figured it out yet. Or is it? Because I can't let go of things that don't work?
Mackenzie 1:00:56
Yeah. And let's accelerate that decision process. Because you're wasting time.
Mark 1:01:00
Yeah, first, yeah, that doesn't hurt anybody more than more than you. So let's talk about the 10 ways to accept your human because that is something that I think is important, and a lot of times hard to do. And I don't like doing that. And I don't like accepting that I'm human. I grew up with an unconscious belief that that I that perfection was attainable. I think I think that was something that or, or the worst perfection was almost good enough.
Mackenzie 1:01:27
almost good enough. Let's talk about the American dream for a second. Yeah. And that's our society. everybody's like, Okay, if you live in America, you can rise the ladder. I mean, like, you can climb to whatever you want to do if you work hard enough, right. But people have conceptualized that as I have to be perfect. So I can rise the ladder. Like, no, you strive for excellence, you don't strive for perfection that goes back to that identity crisis, right?
Mark 1:01:54
Well, it seems to me to unpack my own belief around perfection, any imperfection is the hyper focus, because it's the reason that not gonna work. So I got, I always have one missing thing. And so that's why it doesn't work like that missing comma, did you put their mark that's, that's, that's why it doesn't work as why you're not going to get what you want. That's why you're a failure. As opposed to, you know, the thinking of the way like, think about how much you've contributed, think about all the things that did work. That's not how I was programmed,
Mackenzie 1:02:21
right? And it's so funny to think of people who, you know, they're like, my mom is one of them. She told me that when I went to college, a four point anything under a 4.0 was not acceptable. And I was like, oh, okay, and she goes, it's only because I know that you can do it, I know that you can do it. And I mean, this is where your background comes into play with the coaching style, okay? You lived with a parent who told you that, you know, perfection or nothing, you know, get out so that, like, that really hits home with me, when I have people come to me and say, you know, I had it has to be perfect, it has to be perfect. And I'm like, Oh, honey, I'm a recovering perfectionist, too, I totally understand. And it really, people don't understand that, you know, just because I can do it doesn't mean that that's my form of excellence. The 4.0 would be great. Sure. And and I could probably obtain it, and I'm going to try. But I'm going to strive for excellence, I'm not going to strive for perfection. And I have to know what my excellence is, for me, as a human. And that's why these 10 ways to accept your human, understand it gets you to understand yourself a little bit better. So when you're in this moment of trying to figure out your objectives, what is your excellence? Where are you right now? Are you is are things hindering you? Are they are they helping you? All of that is because we have to know where we are as a human and who we are.
Mark 1:04:05
And that's so important. I think that when my teams set their goals, objectives that are either or some combination actually have revenue numbers, and you know, measurables in the organization, like how many widgets are we going to make? How many clients are we going to have? And what's the revenue going to look like in profit? What objectives are we going to conquer this quarter? And we measure all that. But we also have to ask, okay, we got we did a large portion of them, we did enough. If we did enough science, we didn't if we didn't do enough, we have to diagnose that. But assuming we did enough. Well, I always ask well, does it is it really what we want it? Because all these numbers, the measurables are the best thing. We've got to track track progress. We shouldn't. I'm not dismissing that. It's foundational. It's very helpful to track the progress, but it's not actually what we want is activities and markers along the path that let us know if we're kind of on the right journey or not. We got to get off That those numbers and say like, given those numbers, how does it feel? Is this the impact we wanted? Is this the actual emotional impact? Are we living the life we want to live as entrepreneurs? Is this the business we wanted to create? And we have the customers we want? Does it feel right? And are we living the life we want as human beings? Who are more than than the business?
Mackenzie 1:05:20
Yeah, absolutely. And in my newsletter that I send out every month, this month, it had an article in there from HBr. That said, nine out of 10 employees will be willing to work for less pay for more meaningful work, more purpose, more objective, you know, ways to identify nine out of 10
Mark 1:05:45
there was there an age cohort in that that they described was that across all age groups,
Mackenzie 1:05:49
across all age groups, I think that there was an industry construction, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. It's incredible. And I mean, in school, I mean, so I got my master's from the University of Southern California. And when I was there, they were telling me that, you know, money only satisfies to a certain degree. And then from there, people want meaning they want purpose. They want that once they get everything that they want. monetarily. They look back and they're like, what am I doing? Is this meaningful? Like, how am I making a difference?
Mark 1:06:26
Yeah, they call it hygiene. I think there's a there's an adjective I'm missing. But it's like employment or compensation hygiene or something like this, the things you have to have the bare minimum, right? Like, if you don't feel safe, you don't feel respected. You don't feel like you make enough money. If the drives too long. You know, whatever those things are, they just sort of detract. Once those are out of the way they're kind of on or off. Like once you once you feel like you have enough of that you don't want more of that you then turn to now what am I getting from this, that's really a big deal. And so once you have enough money to pay the bills, you don't feel like you're running out of money. This is a lot of time, right? 50 to 60 hours a week. It is in many ways, your life or certainly a lot of your life. And it should be something that after two to 250 years of your life, it was worth it exactly wouldn't have been worth it. Yeah, what Lega do is, let's learn this point on the 10 ways to accept your human What are they? And what should we know about them?
Mackenzie 1:07:26
All right. So basically, what we want to do is we want to learn how to value our humanity, we want to see that we all screw up occasionally. And understand the need that we all need to connect. And then lastly, define our individuality. So going back to what is your excellence? Who are you as a person? What Who's your community and all of those really great things that you know, we know we should do, but we don't necessarily think about it at every waking moment, right? So when we talk about 10 ways, I'm only going to highlight a few. And I know that you said that this is going to be something that can be accessed later.
Mark 1:08:12
Yeah, we'll make sure this is available to be in the show notes to download. And so anybody who wants to get a copy of this can download it, it'll be easy to get
Mackenzie 1:08:18
all right, perfect. So I'm going to highlight my favorite. Really, though, everyone needs help. Occasionally. This concept is something that was incredibly hard for me to understand. When I was going through tough times, I thought that being strong, was not asking for help. And I didn't realize that asking for help was a part of being human. So the more emotionally mature person will show vulnerability and acceptance when asking for help. And you know, hopefully you have a good network of people that you can go to. And that's, that's one of them. Another one is life always has its challenges. I mean, you know, you look at people and you're like, Wow, you're so put together and your life is great. And you've got it all going on. You've got a good job. And you have to understand that everybody has their challenges at all lives have their own challenges. So stay mindful, stay real. Um, not everyone is watching you. And this one and I in my little section. Yeah, it says, This is not the abs.
Mark 1:09:30
Yeah, that's
Mackenzie 1:09:34
where Fun fact. Other people are more likely to be busy about thinking about themselves. I mean, isn't that true? Like, I used to teach a Zumba class. And everybody would be like, well, I don't want anybody watching me. I don't know how to dance. I don't want anybody watching me and I was like, Well, no, everybody's looking at themselves. They're not looking at you. Okay, number eight. We're all fallible, okay, we all make mistakes, there is no sense in fighting the inevitable, we will all make mistakes. At some point, we just have to know what to do with them. And then number nine, is you never achieve complete approval. So this is a stat that my mom grew up telling me all the time, and I, you know, I live by it, approximately 2% of the population is just not going to like you. So choose your 98%
Mark 1:10:36
percentage is higher.
Mackenzie 1:10:39
Well, I said approximately, okay, that's why that's in there
Mark 1:10:41
on average.
Mackenzie 1:10:45
And then number 10, you belong, just like everybody else. So we're social beings. And on top of that, we're, we're tribal. We create a community and we like to feel connected. So get with people that lift you up, establish healthy communities, know what that means to you know, what's unhealthy, and get connected. And make sure that you know, you have everything that you need.
Mark 1:11:14
Yeah, I love those a couple things that come to mind that needing help. Occasionally, there's two sides of that. One is that the situation we feel like you need help, and in the permission to ask for help. I feel like that actually goes even well beyond the needing to help as in some sort of damage control capacity, it's really about understanding that the go asking for help might be your your first go to, in any scenario, to find the best person for the problem, because there's somebody who wants to help with that. And it's been better at it than you do either teach you or just do it and work it out that way. Yeah. And that's a there's a whole concept around understanding that. In fact, I don't know if you and I talked about this, but there is a sort of belief, binary, that people are taught to believe that there's one or two ways to find value. And one is to build yourself up in terms of knowledge skills, and that you're you are your own asset. And you think inwardly about making yourself smarter, capable, more skilled and consume more and more of that craft and art, as opposed to a relationship based value model, which is that the value comes from having a bigger network of people and going to people first as your is your asset, rather than going inward. And I turned, it turns out that I, I kick I came up believing that it was the build myself up. And so I've had to really learn how to engage with people as part of the collective assets and understand that that's, that's really how you enroll people and making an impact. And it's, it's super high exponential value, as opposed to disrupt. I mean, how many books can you read, not exponential amounts of them. But as you as you learn, to meet more and more people who have greater and greater talents, you do sort of start to tap into exponential power by it by looking outward. So I love this stuff. This is great. And I think it's it kind of tells the story as to why it's not about being strong and being tough. It's you really know this, if you're engaged as a human being in the in life, you know, it's going to be real, it's going to be a battle, a street fight in many times. And it's and it's not just simple walk in the park. And if you happen to live at a time of a global pandemic, it might be a heavier Street Fight than normal. And it is a time to, to band together to be human. So find out how to be your best and help others other people be their best. Is there anything else you wanted to share on this?
Mackenzie 1:13:35
No, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Mark 1:13:38
Well, with that we've covered a lot of ground, we've got gone pretty deep. I'm cute. I'll be curious to see how people, you know what people say about what they've learned in this. I've very much appreciated where we've gone with this. I've learned a lot for myself as well. And I appreciate that. That's one of the big things, the secret of running a podcast that I get to learn a lot from from from very smart, capable people, essentially asking for help for help me helping me be my best. And so the final question is always is what is your passionate plea for entrepreneurs right now?
Mackenzie 1:14:15
Oh, goodness, that is such a loaded question. My passionate plea, I want everyone to accept the fact that you have a perception correct. And I have a perception. But our perceptions may not be the same. So my plea is to recognize that everyone's perception is their reality. And when you figure that out, your business, your personal life, is going to be so much better because then you'll really understand how to interact constructively with so many different people. You'll be a little bit more loving. You'll understand that People are fighting their own battles that they came from very different backgrounds. And instead of competing with one another, we are lifting each other up and understanding that a high tide raises all boats.
Mark 1:15:15
Awesome. I love that message I'm super grateful for for that message in the time we spent together. If somebody wants to continue the conversation with you, they'll have the ability to connect with you via whatever we put in this in this social stuff in the in the show notes. But is there a simple way somebody could find you?
Mackenzie 1:15:32
Yeah, so my website is www dot blink coaching dotnet. And they can find
Mark 1:15:41
coaching, blink, yep, bleaching, gotcha
1:15:45
blink coaching dotnet. And all of the educational tools that we talked about are on there, plus some really good tidbits, some free giveaways and ways to get in touch with me. And you can email me through my website, so everything is right there for you. Awesome.
Mark 1:16:03
And also, we're going to have the the 10 ways to accept your human cheat sheets downloadable on their website, on our website via the show notes and on our site. And I look forward to feedback. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that and offering your gifts to our listeners. That's it for today. Don't forget to subscribe, share with your friends, if you found this valuable and you think somebody could benefit from this. Please get it in their hands so they can take advantage of it and continue the conversation. And of course, leave feedback good and bad. We'd love to hear whatever you got. And we'll see you next time on you're doing it wrong with me. Mark Anderson.
VO 1:16:41
This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson Leary for more episodes and to subscribe. Go to leary.cc