Mark O'Donnell is the Visionary for EOS Worldwide who is passionate about helping entrepreneurs get what they want from their businesses. His Unique Ability is to help clients to clarify and crystallize their goals and objectives, and to take immediate actionable steps to achieve them. Mark is a 4-time Inc. 500|5000 entrepreneur with experience in high-growth organizations.
Visionaries are the heart and soul of the business, but I've seen a lot of Visionaries who were slaves to their business and had zero control over their lives. Today I'm joined by Mark O'Donnell, the Visionary of EOS Worldwide as we talk about the divine hints of the EOS Life and how it has consistently guided him throughout his career to ensure that he is doing what he loves, he has the right people around him, and that he is doing work that is making an impact to the world around him.
1:24 - What is a Visionary?
10:16 - The 5 hints of the EOS Life
20:04 - If you are not at your best, you will not be of much use to others.
27:39 - Mark's journey as an EOS Implementer.
34:07 - Mark going through the 5 divine hints of living the EOS Life
42:51 - Building skills versus building relationships
55:18 - How do you ensure that you're working with the people you love
1:07:35 - Clarity breaks are the best tool for self-observation and evaluation
1:10:00 - Mark's passionate plea to entrepreneurs
"Stay focused, keep executing really well. Think of this as an opportunity to gain skills and capabilities that you never thought were possible or you never through you would do."
GET IN TOUCH:
Mark Leary:
www.linkedin.com/in/markhleary
www.leary.cc
Mark O'Donnell:
www.eosworldwide.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-a-odonnell/
Production credit:
Engineering / Post-Production: Jim McCarthy
Art / Design: Immanuel Ahiable
You're Doing It Wrong - Mark O'Donnell
Wednesday, December 2, 2020
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, visionary, eos, life, business, organization, implementer, person, integrator, create, world, capability, growing, culture, point, impact, company, entrepreneur, freedom, worldwide
SPEAKERS
Mark O., Mark
Mark 00:00
We're rolling, cool. We are live. This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson Leary My name is Mark. And I have a passion that you should feel in control of your life. And so what I do is I hope you get control of your business. And one of the ways I do that is by letting you listen in on a conversation between two people who have a passion for excellence in the entrepreneurial world. And they're talking about something you already know something about. But this time, they're getting deeper digging in and getting into the details. So you can take away some nuggets, and some new ways of thinking that help you unlock your challenges. So you can break through the ceiling and really get what you want from your business and ultimately, from your life. So before we dive in for our guest today, I just want to remind you, please share, subscribe, share with your friends, give us feedback, positive and negative, everything you can tell us is so helpful. And we appreciate all of it. My guest today, I just I'm always excited. I'm always excited. But But today, I'm especially excited because my friend, Mark O'Donnell is the visionary of EOS worldwide. And if you don't know what that is that I some people don't. But it's sort of the foundation of how I'm here why I'm here. And it's such an important part of everything I do every day. But as an entrepreneur, in his own right, welcome, Mark O'Donnell. Hey, Mark,
Mark O. 01:21
thanks for having me.
Mark 01:24
Man, I want to get right to two critical questions that I think most people would want to know more about. And what is. One is what is it a visionary and specifically the visionary of EOS worldwide? What is that about? And you and I also talked about getting into this concept of the EOS life, which is really the reward for doing things right. And living that your very best life, which has a whole bunch of things we can kind of unpack. So one at a time start off, let's talk about this visionary thing. What What is that for
Mark O. 01:55
you? Well, I think it's important to to go back to the foundations of what we teach at EOS, the entrepreneur operating system. Most organizations would have the visionary title as CEO or founder or something of that nature. The way we do it, since we don't really believe in titles, we just call the seat what it is and what it does visionary integrator sales, seat marketing, seat up seat finance seat, we don't really give titles in that way. And so that leads us to the the title of visionary. And so visionaries is simply seeing around corners, it's setting the vision and the culture for the organization. It's the person who's climbing the tree and looking at what's going what we're going to experience in the next 510 years, or whatever timeframe you choose. And so really, that's, that's the role. And I'm not the founder of EOS worldwide. And so it's a little bit of a unique position. And what's even more unique about my role as visionary at EOS worldwide, is the fact that most of the time an entrepreneur starts a business or they're there. Maybe they're the visionary, second generation, and they're looking for an integrator, and they go out in the world and they search for an integrator, I'm a little bit different, because Kelly Knight is our integrator, and she's integrator when Mike Payton was visionary, and she actually went out in the world, looking for her visionary. And so a little bit in reverse. And the from the way it normally happens. And so, since September, I've been the visionary of us worldwide. And the role there is really the classic visionary, big ideas, relationships, driving culture, a little bit of PR is in that component for me. So that's really what what I do at EOS worldwide and and working with the team there. And hopefully that answers your question.
Mark 03:59
Yeah, I was not going to distract on this point. I see a lot of when the founder is the visionary, that's normal comment, we kind of expect that when the founder wants to retire or move on or something happens, maybe they fall in love with the business and they want to do pursue other other things that determine the replacement of the visionary. Something I learned to caution people on is it's not like replacing your head of sales like it's, it's, it's like a heart transplant. It's like you really got to take it for take it seriously because they become oftentimes kind of the high priest of what's right and wrong in the organization. And so it's it's a perhaps I may have given it a little more gravitas than you feel comfortable with at this point. So speak to that point of how you how do you address the situation of a visionary changing of the guard.
Mark O. 04:49
So I think it's interesting because in had a conversation with Dan Sullivan, last week, actually might have been earlier this week. It's been a long week. He's talking about institutional inertia and a lot of the transition here at EOS, you start with Gino, we starting to build it, the business gets to the point where it he joked that we have an employee manual now and so I'm done.
Mark 05:20
Right? Yeah, he says they said I swore I would never never work at a company. As soon as we have an employee manual, I'm out and he's
Mark O. 05:25
out. And he devoted 45 days a year to building us worldwide and did a fantastic job in those 45 days. So unlike Peyton, that that
Mark 05:35
bears underlining, right, the 45 days, he only gave 45 days a year to build in that organization, in addition to the rest of things he did to make money and do other things, which I highlight that because that needs to come back up. When we talk more about what the EOS life is, that's for sure.
Mark O. 05:47
Yeah. So Mike Payton takes over. He's also a full time implementer. And I don't remember exactly what his days are. But it's really about honoring the past and then looking forward into the future. And so making that visionary transition for myself is how do I avoid institutional inertia? Take all the learning forward with us into the future, take all the good stuff, leave the other stuff behind and rethinking that. And there's a lot of value that comes into those transitions, especially from an organization from an enterprise value perspective, being on the third round of third three times removed from the founder, shows that the business model is viable, it's growing. There's just tremendous value there when you don't have these earnouts and all the different things that come along with that institutional knowledge that can't be torn out of the visionaries head Well, we did it at EOS three times.
Mark 06:57
So that at that point, I think deserves some extra attention. The replacement of the visionary the hand, handing over the baton, is dramatically different experience depending on how well structured the organization is the time for sure, because because clearly, Geno's whole obsession was structure and franchise ability. That's the essence of it. So if your organization is in the early stages of trying to get organized and structured, and you as a visionary wanting to wash your hands of it, the replacement person is a very different person, then we've got a really well oiled machine and I want to leave and maximize it's a very different experience entirely. It is you luckily and for everybody's benefit are taking over very well well oiled machine, and you're you're trying to take it to the next level, not trying to fix a whole bunch of dysfunction.
Mark O. 07:54
That Yeah, that's right. I mean, we don't we've run EOS at Eos. Go figure. Yeah. Although we you know, we're PE owned. So we're technically not target market for system. But we run EOS and we run it just like any other entrepreneurial organization, we just do our best. And sometimes we do things great and sometimes not so much. And but you're right, the the structure of EOS has allowed us to go through those ownership changes has allowed us to go through leadership changes, by and large without skipping a beat and allowing freeing us up to focus on the future and where we want to go. All the while honoring where we've been.
Mark 08:42
You know, another thing that can hit me I'm frequently coaching clients and business owners that people changes are good, like you want to do them more often than less, because I do see some leaders who get really upset. Like every time we meet, there's somebody who needs to be removed from the team. I'm like, that's actually good, because you need to create change and get the right fits for that for the jobs. And you clearly had a lot of people in this organization didn't fit in, that's why you had the problems you had. But when I look at EOS worldwide track record over the last three years, it has been intentional people change after people change. It's a constant, normalized. This is healthy. This person's tenure is over this person's You know, we've got a new seat open, it is on display. What it is for Healthy People changes going on. So it's I mean, somebody who's in the community, it's your almost take it for granted. And so it's nice to kind of go we got this really great first hand model of how this can work on why it should work. For sure.
Mark O. 09:39
Yeah.
Mark 09:41
Yeah. Well, so let's talk about the US life then. Sure.
Mark O. 09:48
The US life Alright. So a couple things with the US life. So Gino is launching a new book coming September of 2021 So it'll be launched around that timeframe. And I have a secret mission, I have to say that we will have over 50,000 pre orders of the book. And that's my my secret mission for Gina, which I'm sure he appreciates. So the US life is five things. Okay, so it's number one doing what you love. Number two, is with people you love, making a huge difference, making a big impact in the world being compensated really, really well, and having time to pursue other passions. So that's what the five things are doing with what doing what you love, with who you love, making a huge difference being compensated well, and having time to pursue other passions. That's the life. And when we work with clients, it unlike other operating systems, what's at the core of EOS is entrepreneurial freedom, it's not profits while you'll get some, while it's not about growth, while you will experience it. It's about entrepreneurial freedom. And living according to your unique ability, like Dan Sullivan calls it your sweet spot. So doing what what you love surrounding yourself with people who share your core values, you love being with them. And so you get to be your unique, authentic, I call it your six year old self. Like we're just a bunch of six year olds hanging around with people we love hanging around with. And yet we're making a huge impact in the world. Because we are free from everything we our authentic selves, we can have a huge impact on the people we work with the people we interact with. We run these entrepreneurial businesses we employ people who have families who take care of one another. And so to the degree your home life is impacted when you're your authentic self, you're everything you do is just better when you can be surrounded with people you love doing what you love being your authentic self, which will free you up to create tremendous value to the world which will lead to being compensated appropriately in accordance to the value you're providing. And you'll have time to pursue other passions to spend more time with your family, and do all the things that entrepreneurs kind of struggle with. Entrepreneurs generally are pretty boring. If they're right, bounce, I've been pretty boring trust me,
Mark 12:44
even recently.
Mark O. 12:47
Not not pursuing passions, not having a life that's fully integrated and balanced. So that that's really what the EOS life is all about. And the tools of EOS provide a platform for you to live those five things, whether you aren't attending it or not.
Mark 13:06
So we get this question somewhat frequently. And it is how, how much profit does the average EOS company begin to typically get out of the process? And I've classically respond to so well there's there's a number, but that's not the question. The question is, what percentage of iOS companies get what they want, which allows you to requires the question of what do they want? How often do you find entrepreneurs who are either confused about what they want unclear what they want, or just attached to the to the profit sale side of things as being the only thing that could matter?
Mark O. 13:49
I think that's a good question. Because I there's a story that that Gino tells when he was creating EOS, where he asked hired a marketing company to go market Eos. And what happened was they interviewed EOS run businesses at the beginning stages of when traction was written and things like that. And they said, what was the number one thing that you get? And the response was, I'm living a better life. They're like, well, how in the world do I sell that? So how do you market living a better life? And really, that's what EOS is about. It's about living a better life all together. So we can't really how do you measure that? Well, I can't really measure that because it's in the eye of the entrepreneur. What most entrepreneurs I find when they start their business, they dream of you know, sort of the the tech company billionaires or selling a company for a lot of money and living a life on a beach, doing nothing all day and and that's kind of what they dreamt of when they start started their company. And then they go few years later, they're like, Oh, I'm working 80 hours a week, and I'm not living the life of luxury or freedom that I thought I would, and I'm working harder. So what I tell clients is that you'll get a 10 x return on our work together. And we'll measure 10 X in any way you want. revenue, sure, we can get there profit, yep, we can get there to freedom time, we can get there as well. It's just a matter of what you focus on that you'll get. And we'll design rocks around that will design your V to your vision traction organizer around that, and we can get you there. Do you
Mark 15:43
find that people resist the feeling of freedom that comes with that? Like you start to make some progress. And suddenly, it's not as hard that people kind of like this doesn't feel right.
Mark O. 15:55
Right, because they they expect it to be, they feel a little guilty, actually, in a lot of ways. What I find is that entrepreneurs, they're their entire identity is wrapped up in they've created a personality of someone who works 80 hours a week, who, you know, ignores their family half the time who is just a driven, ambitious person. So they've created this entire identity around it. And so when they say yes, I want freedom, and they start implementing the tools, and they gain the freedom. Well, now their entire identity is being ripped from them, and they fit feel guilty board, all sorts of different things. And the reality is, we're just going through a little bit of an identity crisis of being this hard charging ambitious, 80 Hour Work workweek person to, oh, I only have to work 20 hours a week, I have more freedom, I'm making more money than I was before. And so it's a little bit of an identity crisis. And the reality is, is that they, they wanted freedom, but they didn't think about a future that is bigger than what they built. So they start to lack purpose, and they need something else to do. And so that was rambling a little bit.
Mark 17:11
But I think it touched on a couple things. And so Mike, my next question is really about how two different people on the leadership team different seeds, different different persona, maybe experience a visionary, very commonly experiences what I oftentimes refer to as visionary guilt. Yeah, like suddenly is too easy feeling that like I'm out of the office I'm doing what I love, it's part of my job isn't does actually involve golf. It doesn't involve working in the in the, you know, in poring over the finances and those kinds of things. And so a visionary experiences this freedom of differently than, say, an integrator. How do you see how do you see those comparisons?
Mark O. 17:50
I think it really starts at the top and it works its way down. And so if we could get every visionary entrepreneur to be living the EOS life, those five things that I mentioned, then it's the integrators turn in, you go through the process of delegating and elevating. And as a continuous process over and over again, eventually the integrator gets there, then each leadership team member either all at once, or one at a time, once they're there, then the next layer down next layer down, until you get to the point I mean, my ultimate dream is. So my, my secret 10 year target is to help a million people live a life they love. In other words, you have a million people living the EOS life. And that can happen vertically or horizontally. Right. So one company, for example, if you obsess about the process, you can have every single person in 150 person, plumbing business, living the EOS life, it is possible if you focus on it intentionally. And my belief is that if you do that, you actually will grow faster, you will be more profitable. Because you're going to be creating such tremendous value in the world. The people who are fully living the US life will be better parents, there'll be better spouses, better friends, better humans in general.
Mark 19:24
So you said to say getting a top down. Let's talk to that for a second. How do you reconcile this top down live live the US life versus a concept of servant leadership where we should really be serving our employees first and working backwards towards our own goals kind of out of out of this fit together in your mind.
Mark O. 19:41
So I know it's probably been a while but you've been on a flight. I'm assuming you've taken airplane.
Mark 19:48
Yeah, it has been a while this is true.
Mark O. 19:51
So when the flight attendant is doing the pre flight checks, and they talk about the oxygen masks, what do they say?
Mark 19:58
and put it on your I'll first put it on yourself
Mark O. 20:00
first and then help the person next to you. I believe that if you are not at your best, you will not be of much use to others. And so from a servant leadership perspective, a visionary cannot be a hair on fire run around putting out fires, solving problems all day, and to be a great leader and manager for their people, to help them free up their time to get them to live the life, so forth and so on. So I just think that you have to take care of yourself in order for you to be a great leader in any capacity.
Mark 20:40
Yeah, I think that's great. And I agree, I think and the way I've seen that is twofold. One is, it becomes it is worse, it's to do, as I say, not as I do. It's, it's, it's out of integrity, it's like do something that I can't show you, which leads me to like, they might not know how, and your job it might be to teach them and to show them and leading by example, is really the best way to do that. And I think a lot of leaders, they think they know how to do it, and they've subordinated their own needs for so long. They're like, yeah, I read the book, I'll get there when I get time. And when they try, they're like, actually, I don't know how to take care of myself yet. I don't, I don't know how to really get a sense of that, and take some exercise. And then then you can move yourself into being this really good lead by example. Watch what I do, and you will get some of that too. And I've also found that cultures, with good leaders, have good followers, and followers are people in this in this context, there's all kinds of leadership definitions, but in this concept, it's people who have said, You know, I don't want to lead this ship. And I'm glad that you're doing it. And when you do, well, that's good, because that means what we're doing is working. And if you get good rewards and free time, and if you look like you're living happy and healthy, that means I'm feeling valuable, because I'm doing my part, and I'm gonna share in the reward in that, and I'm fine with a smaller piece of the reward, because you have a bigger piece of the risk. And that's what good leadership is about really being out there, taking the biggest part of the risk up front, and really working to protect the community. Right. So there is there is a all that to say, I think really good healthy, most cultures, they want to see their leader doing well, that that is that is a bellwether of good things happening. And they want their leader who is fighting the fight for them to get rewards feel rewarded, and how to steam for their position and the significance that really is in the company and in their lives as somebody who can help provide for them and for their families.
Mark O. 22:43
And what I think you end up with is a purpose driven organization where all the human energy is rowing in a singular direction to achieve a single goal. And so we'll take us worldwide as the example. Right? So we have 100,000 companies running on Eos. Well, if we all believe in what we do, and we have 100,000 companies running on EOS, and we understand the EOS life that we're we're secretly getting people to live in this way. I mean, think about the impact. And so that's just a tremendous, that's a dent in the universe. Type organization. So that's really exciting, right? You just you just have all these people who have a singular purpose, for sure. any organization
Mark 23:35
in that? Yeah, that's exactly right. So when, when the leadership is seen, at its best, is the leaders who are most willing to take risk for that vision. And that's the part of the equation right? So it's when it's when it's a personal thing, when there's no clear vision. And it's a it's a it's a cult of personality organization, or it's just me and you and there's a tension of culture, a culture of tension, that's around performances between individuals. You have this very personal like, how do I perform in your eyes? And are you mad at me and they're in it's in a leadership is very difficult in that situation, because you start to see the performance of your individual in the feedback you have to provide somebody is like, it's about me, like, I'm a jerk, I'm tough, I'm not. And then, but then you do what you just described, and you've got a vision, and it's clear, and you've done the work, and is it on a document and it may be in, you know, throughout the organization, it's externalized. This is where we're going. This is a piece of the future that we can all see together and road towards. Now, it's not personal. Now, there's a vision, and I just want to help us all get there. And everybody starts to see other people, including the visionary and the integrator, as people who's just to have a role in that function to do something very specific to remove the obstacles to make that vision real. And we're all we all want that vision. It's not it's the egos out of it. It's like we all believe in the vision and we all just play a role and it's powerful when we can kind of get ourselves out of it. That,
Mark O. 25:00
it really is. And if you look at what will just continue to use us worldwide as the example, if we were an organization that was a result of a cult of personality being Gino wickman, writing the author of the books, the creator of the system, if he had a desire to be the hero, the the face, and we would just be followers of his as opposed to building a culture that is purpose driven, and mission driven, of making this living the five things of the EOS life and achieving a goal, we would not nearly be as nearly far along as we would the enterprise value would be less because he could never leave it. He's he's out there. And you know, you look at same with with my pain and myself. Ultimately, we have no desire to be the hero. None. It's about how do I have a create an army of people that are mission driven, that are purpose driven, that share a culture and a quote and a set of core values to make a humongous impact in the world. If we were not that we would just be completely different type of business. And I firmly believe we would not be nearly as far along as we are.
Mark 26:27
Let's talk to that point. Because it struck me How true what you said is good. And people who don't know you listen to this, you know, I know you I've known you before you were the visionary of this organization. And so when you say like, I don't want to be the hero, like I know how true that is. And it's, and I was thinking about like, well, what's the difference, because I've talked to it, I'm sure you have to these, these visionary leaders who they rave about their culture and their people, and they brag about them in a way that is unrealistic, that makes me go, I bet this person and I find out later that they're a little out of touch, that they that they're, they do kind of have a spotlight addiction. And part of what they're bragging about is a culture that really isn't as good as they think it is. And they're not as in tune with them. But you are in tune you mean part of that, because you come from the community when you were in the community doing, you know, viewer era, and listed off listed to see, you know, foot soldier for a long time. And now you're now you're in this. And so that creates a sense, but I speak to that, how does that how does how do people get plugged into really mission driven as opposed to, you know, quote, unquote, mission driven, ego driven leadership?
Mark O. 27:39
Well, I think I'll just kind of take you through my, my journey to become an EOS implementer. And then really just kind of falling in love with the the mission and the impact. And it took a little bit, it took a little bit to be honest, because so I started as an implementer. And I was running my companies and started using the tools. And what I saw around the room was all of a sudden all these aha moments that were occurring with my clients. And so I was experiencing the purpose, I was experiencing people living and beginning to live that us life and being more confident. And so I fell in love with the results that I was getting as a business owner. And as an implementer working with over 80 companies and doing hundreds and hundreds of sessions, I quickly realized that it was about we've created a platform of impact for people. And my job was really just to usher them along the journey. It wasn't my job to be the smartest person in the room, it wasn't my job to wow them and and be the the star on the stage my job it was really about them and just having them experienced those continuous aha moments, those continuous times that they've come into my session room and crying and tears coming down their face and saying I just want you to let let you know that I've become a better father a better husband a better whatever it is. I've my employees I had a person come up to me he was we're not supposed to have and I've tell the story often, we're not supposed to have sessions in the clients space, right? And for whatever reason I did
Mark 29:32
long time employees by space just to make sure it's like in a session in their office, the distraction level is potentially high. You can't get work done. Yeah.
Mark O. 29:40
And we started at 6am to avoid that and you know, set up barriers and things like that. So I'm walking to the restroom and gentleman comes up to me and says Hey, are you that us guy? I'm like, yep, that's me Guilty as charged. And he said Just so you know, I've worked in here for over 20 years. And for the very first time in those I think was 26 years, I actually look forward to coming to work every day. And I was like, Oh, I didn't expect didn't see that common didn't expect it. And you just said, Look, we have a clear vision for the organization, we have clear core values, and we're hiring and firing and all the people who we all knew shouldn't be working here. But we've tolerated for so long are now gone. We are more profitable, yes, but it's really not about that. It's about clarity. And it's about being a mission purpose driven. And so all of these moments that I've experienced as an implementer made me realize that we are having and we have the opportunity to to be a beacon of light in the world, a, I use the analogy of a lighthouse in the storm. And that energizing that that is leaving a legacy versus just making some money because I could go and be the hero, I can go be the hero put on a great show for a session and walk out of there. But what I have the long, long lasting impact that I would if I just make it about them and not about me. And so I think inside businesses inside my clients, the ones that do the best are the ones that have a clear purpose cause passion, core focus, like we call it. And they just, that's what really drives them. The rest of it's just icing, or a byproduct of being purpose driven.
Mark 31:47
Well, this conversation, I think, has gotten to real depth. And what I've, what I'm struck by is that there's two separate topics, we started off with the EOS life and what's a visionary and they sounded kind of separate. And now I'm like, these are really the same. And there's, there's even a third point like impact, right? So and I guess that's kind of embedded in the US live description, but just for keeping it triangulated let's say there's an impact third piece of this, there's the visionary and what that function is, and this EOS life, and I don't think it's a coincidence, we're talking about this, and how they all combine together to like, be clear on on the impact we're trying to make living this amazing life that gives you more energy, and leading an organization in the best way possible. And I looking at that said, looking at the five outcomes of the US life. I think that they don't always manifest equally, right, you know, doing what you love. Okay, that's a question like, do I love this? Do I not with people you love? Do I like these people? Do I not like these people, you might you might get one of those on any given day. And you'd have to think about the other, you know, making making an impact, making a difference that goes into that third piece, really making the impact, fairly compensated in whatever way which sometimes it's money, sometimes it's time. And some days, you know, that's that's kind of here or not, and then time to do other things. And what are other things it might be create new companies spend time with family to recreation, which ends up being sort of this fuel for a better person. But after having reviewed all that, I would love for you to kind of tell me a little bit about your journey and past lives, current recent lives and current lives of how the EOS life has manifest for you. And how did you sort of inventory and assessing? I'm guessing you didn't just sort of flip the switch one morning and say, oh, bam, they're all here.
Mark O. 33:41
Yeah. And and I think throughout your, your journey, you do go in and out of all of those things. And as long as you're intentionally going through a process, and following what I call divine hints, you you make progress along the path of those five dangling hints. Yeah, and I'll explain what I mean by that.
Mark 34:04
Yeah. lots of examples. It's exciting. Yep.
Mark O. 34:07
So I'll just start with the first one with doing what what you love. So for me, you know, I started my career as an engineer in pharma of all places, yeah. And worked for big pharma companies. And there was parts of that that I loved and parts that I did not love. So I didn't appreciate the bureaucracy of working within a pharmaceutical company as an FDA regulated industry. There's lots and lots of rules appropriately so. But it's like being an engineer with one arm tied behind your back. And so there was some components of that and I ran big projects. You know, it's 23 years old running $250 million projects for a big pharma company and all the the experiments To the testing, I just love it all, all of that. running the business side of those projects, I loved all of that. But then when it came down to like actually doing the work, not so much, I was good at it. Okay, they really liked it that much. So I just, I really realized that there's some things that I just am drawn to. And I didn't know why. And that's why I call it the divine hint is like, for whatever reason, I was just fascinated by and motivated by the business end of a pharmaceutical project and producing a drug, and leso of the actual engineering and the tedium of documentation and all the things that came along with it and repair accuracy that goes along with it. Like, why can't we just do it this way, it's much more efficient and effective. Well, you know, this group doesn't make as much money, and this is gonna make me look bad, and I'm not gonna, you know, outlive, or, you know, move up the corporate ladder. So, I started my company, then, as a engineering consulting business with my brother. And we, I was systematically getting rid of the things I didn't like about pharma, and keeping all the things that I did, running projects, being creative. And focusing on the business side running my business of engineers serving, serving pharma. And we would talk about that as the delegate and elevate tool. Now, I didn't call it that then where you have these four quadrants of love, great, like good, don't like but good and don't like not good. I was just systematically over time following the things that were fascinating and motivating, to me those divine hints, and I didn't know why I liked it. And I didn't know why gave me energy and had passion around it, but I just kept following it. And I think one thing to know about me is that the way I grew up, was my brother and I had infinite freedom growing up. Of course, you know, growing up in the 80s, parents were not, you know, as intensely focused on their children as they are in
Mark 37:09
a world Apparently,
Mark O. 37:10
it wasn't, but we didn't know any better. Now I
Mark 37:14
know. I look back at my life, and you felt the same. I'm sure. It's like that was not safe. I'm, I'm glad I'm
Mark O. 37:20
alive. That's right. It wasn't I mean, my brother and I would go for 40 mile bike rides, and the you know, and I didn't even have a phone call my parents, my mom didn't even know where we were. And so I was homeschooled. And we traveled all over the world. And my brother and I being 15 months apart, we were given infinite amount of freedom to do whatever we wanted. So for example, I finished all of my high school curriculum that was required by the state of Pennsylvania, by middle of 10th grade, because I was given infinite freedom to go as fast or slow as I wanted. And so are smarter than I am, that's for sure. No, I just had to, I had no like, we, we needed to learn calculus. So we wrote our bikes to the Walden bookstore and bought a book on calculus and taught herself calculus. Okay, because we just had to pass a test.
Mark 38:15
I guess I can imagine. That's, that's interesting, because I can imagine very, I don't want to get on that rabbit trail. Yeah, you and I should talk about that later. But yeah, you know, that's interesting. Anyway, continue.
Mark O. 38:26
So just to give you a sense of I did not grow up in a way that social norms would box me in, or the you should do this, or you should do that to be a normal kid in the United States. So I didn't have any of those constraints around me. And so starting our businesses, why would you go do that? Well, why not? Like I there's no constraints to the our thinking in that way. So it's actually a big advantage to be a homeschooled kid, in a world where, you know, my dad was at work, and my mom was doing whatever she was doing. And sometimes we were in a classroom, but rarely, okay, it was just kind of up to us to do whatever we wanted my brother and I, my sister different story, but so we just went through. And so we started our company fast forward. And just to give you an idea of no constraints on the way business should work a way we should behave. And having the total freedom to pursue those things that were interesting to us, starting at a very young age, if you like it, just go do it because no one's gonna stop you. Yeah. And so we started a company, we merged it, we started growing very quickly. And we had four partners. I just kept continuing continuously delegating off the things that were getting boring to me. So I would go start a new office in a Different state. And as soon as it got boring, I would ditch it. Because I would just find, oh, well, someone else could take that over, I'll just find someone to replace me here and move on continuously just following those divine hints. And so when I came to, came to us in a very strange place, which was at the Pentagon having lunch with a three star general. And I was hosted by Jonathan Smith, who you know, and who have a
Mark 40:28
very similar story i have i've been in that room. And I, I think I haven't had a two star general at the time, and I had his
Mark O. 40:35
value story. This is Jonathan wasn't your host, I guess.
Mark 40:40
Oh, yeah.
Mark O. 40:42
That's cool. So anyway, being introduced to EOS, then getting really passionate about those aha moments that I was seeing on the other side of the table, teaching the tools. And really just, again, following those divine hints of, for whatever reason, I'm really interested in this, I'm just going to go do this now, having the freedom of thinking to just why not just going to go do it. And so I did. And so the same with my implementor business, then going to coach head coach than visionary, just continuously following those divine hints as I go, I don't understand why they're there, I don't understand why I'm super interested and excited and passionate about one thing and not the other. But I think my job here is just to follow it and see where it goes. Just pull the thread in what I found too, is that the more I do that, the more I learn, the more capability that I create for myself. And the result of that is compensated more and more and more and more as I go. I think a lot of people in the world, they they're penned in by their thinking, their capability and their learning. And the result of that is their, the way they're compensated is reduced in a lot of ways because they just simply aren't adding more and more value to the world. They're not gaining more capability, and therefore they're just not getting paid more. But you know, Patrick mahomes, you know, big contract, right? $500 million deal. People complain, like, Why in the world is this kid 23 years old, whatever, getting paid that much. I've been working at my job for 15 years. And I have you know, I'm not making a fraction of that. And I haven't gotten a raise like that, like, well, you also haven't been you just done the same thing for the last 15 years over and over again, your capability hasn't risen. You're not any more experienced than you were before. Because you didn't obsess about learning and getting better and growing. You're not following the divine hence, it's holding you back.
Mark 42:51
Well, one of the themes is coming up in several of the interviews I've done is this relationship between building skills and versus building relationships? And and what you described there didn't necessarily line up exactly with that. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on? Well, what I heard at one point was that people are kind of socialized to build asset value internally in one of two ways. And one is to think of the skills they can they can gain the knowledge they can consume and the books they can read. And this is sort of the Craftsman mentality, or scientist mentality of like, I am the tool and I need to be a better better tool. And then there is the relationship model, which is people are the source of value. And that the more I can have a better use of network and have relationships, those can parlay into very different assets. And I guess maybe I'm gonna want to expand my thinking, because I've, I've kind of oversimplified it in the past that you know, there's a linear growth to that first, first model, and there's an exponential growth to the second model. But I heard you describe that maybe there is an exponential growth model. And the first one to if you're thinking in terms of skills that have multiplier impact, but you know, my hat, my thinking is half baked to this point, sort of react to that, how do you think about that exponential impact in terms of what are the things that make the exponential impact possible?
Mark O. 44:14
So it's interesting because as you grow your personal capability, you then find yourself hanging around with different types of people, because people will help you iron sharpens iron, right. And so as you continuously upgrade your skills, you're going to be in contact with different types of people that are also on a similar journey and path to you. So I don't look at the relationship building and the the exponential, Hey, I know a person who could do this for me to do that for me, which is an exponential growth factor, but you have to actually get to the room. You got to be able to get into the room and be curious about what are people at at a perceived higher level. What are they doing? What are they learning? How are they thinking? What's different about them? How can I get myself into that room? Well, I got to gain a bunch of skills to get into that room. And then once I'm there, in your networks, expanding your relationships, or expanding, everything you do is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So I think that your personal capabilities and skills in relationships are all intertwined with one another you, you can't be, if I'm a very low skilled person who has no desire and getting better or growing, then I'm just going to be with people who are on the equal playing field as me. And I can try to network all I want, it's just nobody, it just won't go anywhere. Because I have no value to offer them. And if I don't have any value to offer them, well, chances are my networks not going to go anywhere. So you just got to be a really useful person. In order to
Mark 45:55
use utility, there's utility there. And so I don't know that we're gonna get to the bottom of this, because I think we're kind of seeing more questions and answers, because I do think that I do think so something to the priority, that if your primary goal was to sharpen your skills, that's going to create a different animal than somebody who's the primary goal is to create relationships, even if you're also interested in doing the other. And so if I think that matters, and there are those people, particularly in a place like Texas, where we have people who self described is not that smart, and they seem, you know, they seem simple. They dress simple in Texas is really good at doing this too. You know, they the the guy who just has the jeans and the turn up in the beta boots and new and just maybe wearing like a golf shirt that he's washed like 1000 times. And you know, this person is very possibly the billionaire in the room. Yep. And will and he learned that you learn identify after a while, but they will self described as you know, I'm not that smart. I just got good friends, you know, and I asked the right question the right time. And and, you know, it'd be one thing, if there was one person or two people that that happened to but like, you know, you start to see the pattern after a while people who didn't manage relationships, and have, I guess what I'm pointing to is there's a second level of intelligence, right? It's like, maybe they will actually, as I'm, as I'm unpacking this, and sometimes these people, when you ask them like, well, when did you graduate? Oh, I graduated at 13. I'm just pretending. There really are, I think there's a persona that goes with that. But there's also people who kind of the second level of it, they don't necessarily have that engineering background, but they, they can, they can judge character really well. And they can make really powerful connections and their sense of, of ethics are really high, and they make hard decisions around really important decisions. And so I guess what I'm kind of pointing to there is that after having so many interviews, done, the people part of this conversation is not to be underestimated. But it is a recipe you are you are putting ingredients around capabilities that might be technical, that might be emotionally intelligent. But there's no part of this equation as a leader that doesn't involve high order skills with managing people and relationships. Yeah, and
Mark O. 48:10
if I break that down, I would talk about it in just a, a manner of growth. And, you know, I talked about skills and following those divine hints, you know, so part of that is having great relationships, that's a skill that can be learned and grown over time. Emotional intelligence, IQ, all of it can be grown. And so I think there's the most successful entrepreneurs that I deal with, and my personal approach to life is that you can improve on quite literally every aspect of your life. And it's all intertwined. And so if you look at Texas, in the Millionaire Next Door, thing is Dr. Thomas Stanley talks about, you know, what is the typical Millionaire Next Door look like? And they drive the f150. They buy watches that are pretty cheap, and you know, so they just very regular people. But what you've dig under is that they're obsessed with growth and learning and that curiosity that's never satiated. They're just have a continual mindset of continual growth and improvement in every area of their life. And I'm not talking about using an Excel spreadsheet, right? Well, you can get good at that. It'd be easier to find someone else to go do that. So I think it's interesting because I personally have never looked at it as two separate things where it's a skill, the ability to do a job, and the ability or desire to build a relationship as two separate things. I think. I've always looked at them as its growth in one bucket. I am just getting better at whatever topic is is whether it's emotional or physical or any area of life.
Mark 50:06
I hear what you're saying. And I think that's a holistic, because I maybe to you, you just never seen any different. And your success certainly speaks to that you have been consistently successful. And you're in a role that requires you to be holistically healthy, I believe. But I think fundamentally, as a as a technician, you could be a great programmer, you could be a great surveyor, you can do things at a skill level, that really subordinate the involvement of people. I think that's true. But as a business leader, as an owner, I mean, an entrepreneur, there's no option for you not enrolling people, it's not a business. It's not an organization if there aren't more people in it. And so the idea of enrolling people in your vision, giving access to the vision, and all the communication aspect of that is fundamental. But it's not fundamental to everyone's role in life. It is fundamental to the entrepreneur. So if you're going to grow, you probably have to even if you're good at it today, to your point, if you're good at today, you got to be better tomorrow. For sure.
Mark O. 51:11
No doubt. Cal Newport wrote a great book, one of my favorites, so good, they can't ignore you. Yeah, whatever you're doing, you just got to be so good that no one can ignore your your skill, your capability, whether it's leadership, whether it's management, whether it's the technician, the software developer in the basement, doesn't matter. Just be so good. They can't ignore you, whether you're sweeping the street or
Mark 51:34
whatever. Okay, so that's interesting. So I'll challenge that a little bit. So I went to music school, and I there, you can, I guess the idea of so good, you could, I don't know, because it Berklee College of Music in Boston, the talent, like overflows out the windows. Yeah, it's, it's, they're all amazing. And anywhere you go. But I could see the difference between people who were super talented, and people who were talented and capable of connecting and doing things. And so you would, I would see the same drummer who was very good, maybe not the best, but very good. And he was always organizing, there's always a new band around him, it was always one of those things. And I would see the guy and I was like, that guy seems to have a way. And I tracked him and the guys in LA is a known guy, he's in charge of big stuff now and in you know, he's easy to find, I was like, I knew it, I knew you were gonna do it. And so there is something there's a pragmatist there's ability, a whole ism of your business, you have to have the sales and marketing function, you have to have the operations function if the finance function. So if you're just so good on the operation side, and you can't sell it and or you can't get there and if you can't keep the kinky the mechanical living out of it, that's, that's not good. Either. You got to have all three of those functions
Mark O. 52:52
in. I think that's interesting, because thing is Ralph Waldo Emerson, and I'm paraphrasing is that as I essentially as I walk down the street, every person I meet is my superior in some way. Yeah. And that takes you right to your sweet spot, what what were you put on this earth to do. And if we say that everyone has their unique role to play, our job is really just to find it. It's not going to be this, everyone, you know, is kind of having to get better at all kinds of different things. It's, you just got to pull those strings, those divine hands, keep following it. So you can be your unique, authentic self. Because that's where you'll be at your best and whatever role you were meant to, to play. So that that's how we got to here.
Mark 53:51
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, what what else? Are we missing on the Eos life? What do you want to share about EOS life that people might not? intuitively get or not not have? clear by now?
Mark O. 54:06
I think it's pretty, pretty clear. I mean, we we didn't go very linear path of doing what you love. I think we're good there with people you love. That's just putting yourself you know, talking about relationships, building relationships, building a culture with intent, surrounding yourselves with people who share your core values, or perhaps on the same mission. We talked about impact.
Mark 54:29
Well, that's a good one. I want to go back to people. Because I had a guy on the on the show, six months ago or so Jeff Hoffman, he was a successful entrepreneur, one of the early founders of one of the pieces of Priceline, and he's been very, very successful ever since then. And he and he was interviewed on television, and he had kind of that question of what's more important, the journey to destination very classic trick question. And he just kind of in that moment was like, No, wait, what? No, it's not either of those. It's who's on the journey with you. It doesn't matter where you go, because it doesn't even matter what happens if you got great people on the journey with you, it's gonna be a wild ride you're going to enjoy no matter what. And I think that concept is understated. I think that we do a lot of work around it. But I think we I think we leave our shell short of the importance of that. What have you done to make sure you're around the people who just are the very best in the world to be hanging out with?
Mark O. 55:18
Well, I think there's a couple things in with the story of my background, my brother and I have always been very close and build a company. And we merged with two partners. And we had a culture we loved initially. But over time, it became a culture that I was not, I personally did not fit into. And it was a company I owned. Right. So
Mark 55:49
okay, so you did not fit into your own culture, I did not fit into my own culture.
Mark O. 55:51
And so what happened was, that was part of the my first QC quarterly collaborative exchange with I think it was about the time 40 implementers in the world at the time. And I came to my first PC, Yes, right. 395, I think, for the very first time I was I went to a room, I'm like, either I accidentally joined a cult, or I'm surrounded by people who think like I do who behave like I do. And this is a place where I want to be, and so I've never left since then, obviously, clearly. What that led me to was obviously selling Mike my companies and understanding then the importance of culture of surrounding yourself with people who think and who and when I say think I mean, people who just value what you value. It's not I mean, I absolutely appreciate and believe that diversity of thought should be there, and background and experience, and all those different things are very, very important. But when you boil it all down to what, what do you hold dear? What are your values, and if you surround yourself with people who believe would you believe at its core, it feels like home to you. And so that's what I experienced the very first time I came into the EOS community. And then to expand upon that joining Strategic Coach being surrounded by a bunch of other crazy entrepreneurs, that felt like home to me as as well. And so that that's really what surrounding yourself with people you love, or really surrounding yourself with people who either are on the same mission as you or value at its core, what you value and believe what you believe at, its at its core, once you're there, you feel like you're at home and that you're meant to be. And so that that's really what it feels like when you go into your office and you just, you know, it is who you are with on those journeys. It matters a lot.
Mark 58:05
So I guess going back to that feeling of the you didn't fit your own businesses culture anymore. What would you tell people to in terms of that divine hint, around around that feeling of so they go to the office? And they're like, how do they know like, maybe I should leave this business? Or maybe I haven't done such a good job of curating my core values here. And we need to do a culture upgrade, because that's, I'll go back to that point. That's the question. I'm asking you, if I'm your implementer. And you say like, I don't love it anymore. I'm gonna say like, Are you the wrong fit? Or are they the wrong fit? And we got to make a decision. And you said, I'm the wrong fit, which is probably not the most common answer. Right? Right. Right. So how does somebody if somebody is going to the office, and they're like, I don't think I like that many of these people here, which I'll bet is a very high number of business owners, right? How do they How do they first How much do they do with that?
Mark O. 59:01
I think you got to do some soul searching, and figure out what that is in doing what's best for the business or best for yourself. And, you know, for me, my situation was unique in that I had or maybe not unique, I had a quite a few business partners. And as I was observing, it became the the culture was more about money than it was about growth, and prestige and status versus let's grow a big company that makes a big difference. It was best for that business, that those partners continued going after the dollars versus the impact and the growth. Okay, so it became clear there was already and I use the term institutional inertia earlier. Yeah, there was already so much inertia down the path that I just was untenable for me to stay. I would also say that That businesses can outgrow you and your capability and your desire. And so at some point in time, your business sort of takes a life of its own and starts to create a culture of its own. And you just got to know when it's time to go. I mean, just like we talked about earlier, with Gino leaving us worldwide now as a cultural thing, because he still comes to every quarterly collaborative and joins in with everybody else. But it was the business itself outgrew what he wanted to be and do and part of his sweet spot. And so that's really the point that I came. So it's really just being open and honest with yourself, of where you really want to go with your life. You have one life to live, it's not dress rehearsal. So if you've created something that you're not especially proud of, it's okay to go. It's okay to go.
Mark 1:00:50
Yeah, that's a It's awesome. Time, the time for other pursuits, speed, I think that's an interesting one. Because I, I've come to all kinds of time for other pursuits, time for their passions, whatever the P is that you want to substitute, I think is kind of where this goes is make sure you are enjoying your life. And there's a lot of ways that can be interpreted. What does that mean to you? And how did how did you? have you encountered that? Yeah, because I know you can get a little obsessive about work. I've seen you get very busy. And that time for other pursuits. I'm betting there have been times when you have been hard pressed to claim that you've got time for other pursuits.
Mark O. 1:01:27
Yeah. And, you know, for me, even recently, and so, you know, truth be told, this is an area that I've struggled as an entrepreneur since the beginning. And are you familiar with Annie Graham?
Mark 1:01:42
Yeah, in fact, I just did an interview yesterday on it. So
Mark O. 1:01:46
Graham, seven, go getter, which is a visionary. And I am an sp, which means a self preservationist. Okay. So, essentially, a little bit of part of the way I grew up was we didn't have enough we didn't, you know, we were bore, and so deep inside my psyche is the fear that if I don't work really, really hard, I'm not going to have enough. And it's irrational at this point. I mean, it's completely irrational at this point, but it's still there. Yes,
Mark 1:02:24
I would agree with that. If you haven't offended, it's great. It's great inspiration to watch that. Yeah.
Mark O. 1:02:29
So you know, it's, it's just a, but it's still built in there. And so what leads me if I'm not taking clarity breaks, and if I'm not being intentional and focused, I can flip the the work, the family and personal care method, upside down, where I'm putting work before everything else. And if you look at my calendar, there's times where there's nothing for personal time, there's nothing for health, and there's nothing for family. And so I can easily go into that. And I've done it even recently, up to three weeks, I'm like, Alright, enough is enough, I got to flip the script around. And it goes back to doing what you love, in order to reprioritize your time, just got to delegate and elevate your all the bottom two quadrants out, and that's gonna free up a ton of time pretty quickly. And it's then having the intention of having free time, the time to pursuit you have the time, it's not about time, it's about the priorities that you put into it. And so one of the things that I'm doing is time blocking and saying I give given my assistant, very specific instructions look, personal time, that's number one time to do some meditation and journaling and planning for myself. Second is family. Right? Again, putting the mask on yourself first, before you help the person. Yeah, then family stuff comes second to that, and then all the business stuff needs to come last. And so what people read in Geno's book, when it comes out in September, is the concept of this type of planning and, and creating a work container and doing those types of things. So, I personally just have a lot of work to do in this area as
Mark 1:04:24
well. So I'm assuming that like, just the attempt at making it better, creates good, better, more healthy outcomes for you. Like, even if you're not as good as you want to be. Just the attempt to create those clarity breaks. Yeah, you know, it has a real big impact.
Mark O. 1:04:39
And it wasn't he said capability just like we talked about earlier, you know, having the capability to have you know, fun time for your family and play time and not be a dull person. Yeah,
Mark 1:04:51
well, I have found I have found a little contradiction, or at least a challenge to pitfall in the end when you start doing Like, well take it back, if you're not doing what you love, and somebody says you need to take better care of yourself, you're like, perfect, I hate that work. You're telling me I need to do less of that. Amen, because I hate that work. But when you tap into something that's really, truly rewarding and enjoyable, it does feel like more is more. And it's like, Oh, I love this, let's do more, I want to be better, I need to be better, let's get better. And then you kind of run up to the redline on doing what you love, and it feels great, so great. You're not maybe paying attention to how hot the engines getting. And some of the some of the smoke coming out of the back of the car. Like I just want to go faster. And it's like that cars gonna blow me. So I definitely experienced that I definitely had myself in many seats and many functions and roles throughout my life that were learning experiences, but not really long term for me. And when I did find finally find myself in a really amazing, this is my unique ability space, it I found the opposite challenge, like AI is really much harder to create the limit of like, how much is enough? Yeah.
Mark O. 1:06:06
I think slowing down being more thoughtful, more intentional, requires space in your life. And there's some great studies around when the best ideas come. And I think it's only 16% of the best ideas that have been executed on and became something of note, only 16% were created during work. The rest of the ideas were created during play, or free time, or travel. And so I would just I agree that you just sort of get obsessed. And at some point to my point earlier, you start to have to think about what your motivations are for your obsession. And for me, and irrational self preservation was really, you know, part of my driver is part of my driver, which I can certainly change, then it was pursuing passion. So I think there's a fine line where you start real passionate, and you get a lot of energy toward something. And at some point, you got to wonder why you keep going?
Mark 1:07:14
Well, here's what I figured out about that. And I've had, like, so many interviews with coaches, you know, inner work specialists, psychologists, and so there's this theme. And the theme is that that obsession is in that pattern, that you know, it's a pattern, it's happens automatically. And you nail the point like it's about growth, if you're in a pattern, you're not growing, it's that simple. The pattern may be very valuable, and it may have gotten you here. But if you need to get somewhere else, you may need to change the pattern. And there's only one thing that you must do. And there's things you can do after that there's only one thing you must do. And that is to observe you if you're in the pattern, if you're burning hot, the one thing you're not doing is watching, you're doing. And so you've got to find that space somehow to watch and ask yourself, is that working? And if it's not, what would I change and what would be better, and you have to have that ability to observe yourself. And that's what clarity breaks are about and that the clarity break is probably the hardest to sell tool for people who aren't doing it you. Like it sounds crazy The first time you introduce it to some teams. But as it turns out, it's like the one least negotiable, most powerful tool in the whole toolbox to make sure you have that space to sit to ask yourself that question. There's actually two questions. What am I doing? Because sometimes you think you know, and you're wrong. And the second question is, is that serving me? Is that really the right thing? And then that leads to the third question like, if not, what might I do to go more in the direction that I'm trying to do? And that only comes from that that space? observation, that clarity?
Mark O. 1:08:55
Yeah, taking yourself out of the day to day and being? So for me, meditation and journaling has been just a huge help. With that.
Mark 1:09:10
Well, we have covered a ton. And I'm I think this has been a great conversation. Is there anything we missed? You think we should fill in for the EOS life?
Mark O. 1:09:21
I don't think so. I think we've covered it all in. It's about entrepreneurial freedom. It's about living a life you love. And if you execute the tools and gain the capabilities of executing those tools and grow, you'll, you'll be able to live the life. And in some days you will in some days you won't and that's okay too.
Mark 1:09:44
So, I agree. So given your experience as an entrepreneur, as a facilitator of hundreds of companies getting what they want from their business, and now the visionary of an organization whose mission is to really impact the entire planet. In terms of entrepreneurs living their best life through running their best business, what is your most passionate plea to entrepreneurs right now?
Mark O. 1:10:12
I think it's interesting, because it's interesting question, you know, in the midst of COVID here, and the the future being uncertain, you know, no one really knows what's gonna happen, how long this is gonna last or not last or whatever. Stay focused, keep executing really well. And control what you can control Think of this as an opportunity to gain skills and capabilities that you never thought were possible or you never thought you would do. Here at EOS, we were a whiteboard in person, pen and paper type of company. And we went from doing maybe 150 sessions virtually with our clients ever in like 19 years or something to doing 8800 and a quarter. It's a very different, it's a I mean, talk to talk about the tremendous amount of capabilities that we as an organization gained in such a short amount of time, and I think we're over 12,000 full day virtual sessions at this point, four times more than any other competing organization that we know of. And that just creates a tremendous capability. And those types of opportunities are exist in every business, you have an opportunity to reinvent to just completely get better at every area of your business in your life. As Warren Buffett said, when the tide goes out, it reveals those swimming naked, the tide went out for most businesses. And now it's time to reinvent hunker down control what you can control, except the fact that it's hard, have the undying hope and belief that in the end, you're gonna win, and you will, and you will, and you'll be actually more capable in a better organization by the time we get there.
Mark 1:12:11
It's a great example. And I believe that the message is going to boil down to, you know, accept and adapt, right, because if there was one thing that EOS worldwide was not going to accept before this, it would be virtual sessions are good. It was like, Huh, we got a choice. So it turned very quickly. All right, we're gonna make the best of this. And it turned out to be really, really good.
Mark O. 1:12:38
It really has. I mean, we've had such a big impact. As I talked to implementers, there are more companies now having their best quarters ever for revenue and profit than ever before. And while Yes, there's been some casualties here and there. But we've had restaurants completely transform into different types of businesses. We've had mall kiosk companies have completely changed their business model and have a small hit then become better than ever. We're seeing this the power of focus and execution and the willingness to change and adapt. works. So yeah.
Mark 1:13:24
Well, man, I really appreciate that such a great gift, your time, your wisdom, your experience. I'm super grateful for this. We've covered a ton. If somebody wanted to continue the conversation, and you know, how does somebody find you observe you in the world? You know, what's the easiest way to know what you're up to?
Mark O. 1:13:41
Sure. They can email me at m O'Donnell, m od o n n e Ll at EOS worldwide calm.
Mark 1:13:52
straightforward, man. So I'm grateful. It's been a great session. I really believe this is gonna be helpful to visionaries, people trying to understand the visionary, I think by giving them permission to be themselves as visionaries, is I've learned a lot in this and I'm grateful for the time. Thank you. So that's it for today. Don't forget to subscribe, share with friends, make sure you leave the feedback get this in the hands if you've got a visionary that you know it doesn't really understand themselves at this point would be a great thing to get in their hands and let them kind of hear this perspective and help them see see themselves better. We'll see you next time on you're doing it wrong with me, Mark Anderson.
VO 1:14:33
This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson Leary for more episodes and to subscribe. Go to leary.cc