As a Certified EOS® Implementer and Head Coach at EOS® Worldwide, Jill Young guides business owners to create vision, experience traction, and form unified teams. Since 2014, she has conducted over 750 EOS® sessions and continues coaching entrepreneurs who are on the lifelong journey to becoming their best. Before becoming a full-time EOS® Implementer, she was the president of a growing forward-thinking CPA firm. Today, you can find Jill on the bookshelves as the author of the beloved Advantage series.
Have you or your leadership team ever felt stuck in a rut? The bad news is it’s your fault. The good news is that you have the courage to fix it with some surprisingly simple approaches. I’m joined by Certified EOS® Implementer and Head Coach of EOS® Worldwide Jill Young to talk about three specific ways to lead more courageously.
4:46 The life of an EOS® Implementer
15:25 Jill talks about her Advantage series books
20:50 The teams who lack the courage of discipline let every excuse pull them away.
28:36 Mastering discipline with EOS® tools
33:12 The courage to lighten up has a lot to do with authenticity.
39:17 You gotta experiment to find out what works and what doesn’t work.
43:51 Celebrate and embrace your issues.
47:50 Just keep going one foot after the other.
48:50 Jill’s passionate plea to entrepreneurs
“Go get a thinking partner.”
GET IN TOUCH:
MARK LEARY:
www.linkedin.com/in/markhleary
www.leary.cc
JILL YOUNG:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eoscoach
https://www.jillyoung.com/
Production credit:
Engineering / Post-Production: Jim McCarthy
Art / Design: Immanuel Ahiable
Wednesday, July 7, 2021
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
teams, people, love, courage, call, thinking, discipline, taxonomy, book, mark, find, coach, music, longer, psychology, passionate plea, eos, lighten, bit, experiment
SPEAKERS
VO, Jill Young, Mark
Mark 00:00
So we're rolling, cool. We are live. This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson, Leary and my name is Mark, and I have a passion that you should feel in control of your life. And so what I do is I help you get control of your business. And part of how I do that is by letting you listen in on these conversations between me and somebody else who's passionate about the entrepreneurial subject in some way, digging into a subject you already know something about, but this time geeking out in a way that helps you break through those ceilings. And so today, I'm joined with none other than my good friend, Joe young, who is an EOS implementer, like me, but also an author and an A former CPA, which makes no sense to me. But somebody who is an expert at helping people get out of their own way. And so I want to talk about your book. And so your other books, and welcome, Jill, how are you?
Jill Young 00:48
I'm so great. Thanks for that super fun introduction. But I do have to tell you that you are already doing it wrong. So yeah, I am not sure that a lot
Mark 00:59
of people in my life say something very similar throughout the day.
Jill Young 01:03
So you are not alone when you heard that I was president of a CPA firm. And so some people will say, well, geez, to be president of a CPA firm, you've got to be a CPA. Guess what? I'm not a CPA, but yes,
Mark 01:17
that makes more sense. That makes more sense.
Jill Young 01:19
I was president of a CPA firm.
Mark 01:23
So I don't want to get too far down the entrepreneurial journey. But that's a question. everybody's thinking right now. And I'm thinking that too. And you told me and now that now that I know, I should remember the story better, but you tell me how did you find as a non CPA? How did you find yourself running a CPA firm? And what made you think that was a good idea?
Jill Young 01:39
I sometimes ask myself that same exact question. Well, I had been staying home with babies for about six and a half years. It's actually sick.
Mark 01:48
CPAs. Okay. Okay. Well, no, I'm totally teasing. I had some of your CPA friends might might listen to this, like, no, they were all very mature. All of them.
Jill Young 02:02
All of them. Exactly. I had been staying home with babies. Now I have this calculated, it was six years, three months and 19 days that I stayed home raising babies.
Mark 02:16
How I heard 19 days, six years,
Jill Young 02:19
six years, three months, and 19 days prison
Mark 02:25
like scratches on the on the on the bricks in the garage.
Jill Young 02:29
A little bit. I actually remember I was watching Bob the Builder with one of my little ones. And then I just started bawling. I just started crying. I'm like, I can't do this anymore. It's done. And you know, Mark, I've done that several times in my life. I'm I'm just all in I'm all in. I just kind of put my shoulder to the grindstone. And then one day I wake up and I say, I'm done. I want to do something else. I've done it a handful of times, a handful of times and
Mark 02:58
the cycle get longer for you. Because I've done the same thing is okay,
Jill Young 03:01
absolutely. It's gotten longer for me. I've been doing this now. I'm an EOS implementer. A bit just like you. Hello, good, buddy. This is seven years, seven years now. But the thing about this cool job, if you want to call it that is that it's brand new every day is brand new every day. So I know you asked me a question about the CPA firm. But basically, I was bored. I went to work for a friend. About 18 months later, I was president of the firm, we can fill in the blank.
Mark 03:33
Be careful what you wish for Be careful doing a good job excellent times they reward you.
Jill Young 03:39
I just did a little thing. Like I looked at the market and thought What does the market need? And then I looked at the firm. And I thought what could we provide? And I just put those two things together.
Mark 03:52
Yeah, CPAs law firms. Very, very not tuned to things like marketing in general in terms of like, what is the market what you know, market driven, selling and all anyway, that's a whole different talk about Mike Morrison, what he's done and you know, of Mike Mars, right? fireproof, so he's he's one of Geno's, early clients, and he managed to scale his law firm to be one of the largest in in Michigan. It's a good good story. And it's good stuff in the book is fantastic. But it's it's a great example of how when you when you apply the basics of business to some business that just sort of thinks it doesn't apply to them. We're not a business, we're in it. We're a firm, what? Do you have people who pay you money in exchange, you know, for some work, okay, is there a need that they have to know they have a need and all those things. So it's a it's a good example of that. So you apply that but
Jill Young 04:46
it's similar to when we get calls from entrepreneurs and they say, Well, my business is very unique. It's very different. Well, the basics applies to every business. So that's kind of the fun part of what we get to To mark just the different kinds of businesses, but we all need the basics.
Mark 05:05
We do and it's amazing how the basics. You know, the basics are all just like the eight to 12 dependent way, but 12 musical notes, right? How many songs Can you make with 12, musical notes? All of them all of the songs all.
Jill Young 05:22
You know now you said we would geek out on different topics. But isn't that crazy that there's only 12? Yeah, I mean, with the scale of everything, you've got numbers in between numbers, why can't there be notes in between notes?
Mark 05:35
All right now you there actually are there actually are microtonal is a thing. It is absolutely a part of it. So that's, that's, you know what I kind of reminds me this idea that for you to really break the rules, artfully, you have to really master the rules. And so that I think is the essence of microtonal music. You know, when you're when people start putting a little bit of a tonal switch on, a little push up a little push down changes, the feel of a note of blues is notorious for that. Johnny hooker is actually one of the classic is a is a blues musician known for his microtonal music. And if you if you ever tried to emulate his very basic blues songs, you can't do it. If you put the notes if you make them exactly what the piano says to do you you have to move, you know, move them flat and sharp and weird spots to change the mood of the music. And so that's the answer your question. So there's as many as you need in between that.
Jill Young 06:28
didn't even know that microtonal note? Yeah, this did and now I do.
Mark 06:33
Yeah, so there's, there's newer music, this microtonal by intent, kind of like you know that postmodern right, they intentionally mapped out the microphones and there's music notation to go with it. And that's obviously very hard to listen to music that it makes a lot of sense in a laboratory. But, but that's, but if you but if you actually take it back into more primitive forms of music is actually intuitive and built in and most people weren't even aware it was there. So if you've ever noticed that maybe there's something about that guitar that's a little bit out of tune. You know, there's a tremendous difference between that beginning player is a little out of tune. And that epic, iconic blues musician who just has a sound that no one can seem to replicate.
Jill Young 07:15
Mm hmm. I can I can totally understand that. Now that you've explained it to me. Isn't that funny? How sometimes you just know something once you're once you are taught it? It makes sense. But before somebody explains it to you, it wasn't even a thing.
Mark 07:33
Yeah. Oh yeah. Well that's the nature of thinking because to take it back to the steam and we're way geeking out on this I don't know who's gonna listen to this maybe you and me musicians will love this I'm in no rush and you're a musician right? Yeah, yeah band in a band, Are you well? I've been in a couple bands and I'm mostly you know, to get off road and camp and that kind of stuff to say family. But the idea of taxonomy I really what taxonomy so Wow, we are way off the last the last list is that the last listeners clicking next right now,
Jill Young 08:11
but staying because they're so curious.
Mark 08:15
How is he gonna say next. So Eckhart Tolle talks about presence, then he really dives into this concept of when you when you experience the world, especially nature, something magical happens when you walk out into nature, and you stop mentally naming things. You no longer give it you don't refer to it as a tree, you don't look at the squirrel, you just look at the the thing in itself, you consume it with your senses, hole. And it talks about the wonder and the awe and I've experienced this, if you ever tried it, it's mind blowing, go outside and just stop and just turn your mind off and just consume the senses hole in the infinite to infinitude. And they nuance and detail of all this nature is can be quite overwhelming. It's amazing. And he really espouses this as a way to gain presence. I spent a lot of time sort of figuring out like, what but we have names for things right? Like is is that useful is that does that counter productive, counterproductive. And what I discovered is that when you live in a complex world where there are infinite things, you cannot refer to the semi transparent six foot tall, shiny on one side with a little bit of a hook thing. And then you go in and you use your fingers to pull it toward you. You go through a glass door. It's a glass door, glass door. Now it doesn't describe all the other glass doors that are different, but it's close enough so you can shorthand and sort of said so taxonomy is that naming conventions the way to break things down into kind of like similar awesome like squirrel like the brown fuzzy animal with a little bit of gray near the back of the six inch wiggly thing that is a squirrel. It's it's not a it's not a it's not as detailed description of the squirrel but we don't have time. We're not talking about like, the, the details of the squirrel. Did you see that? It's an efficiency thing efficiency and a communication tool. Yeah. So all that back to musical modes, like make music out of infinite number of sounds, that's too much. We can't like, let's break it down to eight, well, let's make it then 12. And then, okay, if we're really bored, we'll make it you know, 24, or more than that, and it gets a little complex and 2012 seems to be really useful for most modern. And so in business, because we're taking it back. Things like the tool set the EOS tools, the five conformational tools. You know, in compartmentalization is you know, we've got one year goals, quarterly rocks seven day to dues and two different types of issues four buckets, we can, we can put things that we could put them in any number of buckets. But the taxonomy is not efficient. If we do that, if we find four places to live with things, we can make it easy for our brain to simplify how we process all the 136 things we deal with every single day. And then we still have a mind blowing amount of creativity and art we bring to that is the uniqueness of working with a client with the same problems. We don't have clarity of where we're going, how we're going to get there. accountability is suffering, we got a team is not quite cohesive. Well, they all say that, right? And so what what what, what is the path look like? I don't know, it's going to be magical. You're going to bring your creativity and your art, and we're going to solve those three problems, and we're going to create a unique journey for you. That's going to be amazing.
Jill Young 11:44
That's it. That's it in a nutshell. That's what we do. And it's the simplicity of it. That is the magic part. You said we're going to create some magic. I love that word because it looks effortless. I have I have teams all the time. I'm sure you do, too, that will say I just can't believe how far we have come in three months, or in six months or five months. And they look back at what hours, sometimes three hours. They look back at what they did. And they think, oh, all we really did was, you know, clarify who does what, and put our ideas that we already had the ideas, we put them on paper. And we all said yes to those ideas. We did less instead of more. And those all of those concepts that we teach, they're so simple, that they just, you know, produce such amazing results.
Mark 12:34
Yeah, well, and lately, I've had, I think some pretty special teams. And I find myself deflecting a lot of credit. And because here's what I figured out, I say, Look, I've never been able to manufacture the magic, like I've been in the room with teams that don't have the magic, like I cannot fix that problem. And so it's just amazing to work with so many inspired teams, like they have a lot of passion, and they're serious, they're willing to be their best. And I don't know what it is right now is the time or just seems like there's so much abundance of ideas and opportunity, and people are really going to work. So it's just a real privilege to be working with so many great companies right now and bringing some fundamental tools to, to, to some really great company. There's a lot, there's a lot of magic out there.
Jill Young 13:18
There's a fun phrase that I sometimes use when clients will look at me, and they'll say thank you, Jill, thank you for doing all of this. And I said timeout timeout, that that was not me you had to go do the work. You know, the system itself might even take 2% of the credit. But it's that human psychology for them to look around and think what changed? Oh, the only thing we did different was we started meeting with Jill, and then they give me credit. And I think it's really important for coaches to turn that back around. You use the word I like what you say. You said I haven't been taking credit, but you were able to start deflecting it with like my credit team. Thank you. I love that. Thanks for that phrase. I've been deflecting the credit, I think it's important for coaches to do that. Because it's another learning another learning point for the team. For you to say I didn't do it, you did it. And they read they turn, they turn their attention to themselves and their own behavior. And sometimes we just don't naturally do that.
Mark 14:26
It's important for me to that they don't take the credit appropriately until I help them see that. Yeah, they brought the magic, I just gave them a couple of little tools and coach to them to get the most out of it. But if I as a coach who works with the companies I work with, and I look back at all of the impact they've made, and if I somehow tried to assume some credit for that it would crush me. There's there's absolutely no way it doesn't even pass a sanity check. I'm not in command of of all that vision and all those people in all those cultures that are and they're all so different. And so it's really important to be clear and in somewhat somewhat bright lines to say like, I am maybe a catalyst here but you're providing the inputs. And you're doing the work and you're creating the outputs. I'm just, I'm a catalyst at best. And I'm grateful to be on the journey with a lot of great companies. It's that simple. I'm just grateful. It is fun. It is fun. Well, we
15:13
had sufficiently geeked out there on that little rabbit trail. I want to talk about your book talking about. Talk about your book, which book Co?
Jill Young 15:21
Well, I have three, I have three books, if you want to talk about three books so far, because I just love to write books. next book,
Mark 15:29
we can talk about your next book,
Jill Young 15:30
oh, well, we could we maybe you could help me write it. And I actually spent a few hours on it on it this morning. So the series is called the advantage series. Because just, quite frankly, what I noticed is that all of these teams that start to enjoy this coaching relationship, they walk away, and they have this advantage. So I really wanted to figure out what you know, what is it? What is it that gives teams this advantage? Or what do they take advantage of when they're right, have the tools and make it their own. But there's three of them. The first one is called the earning advantage. And that's really for any entrepreneur or leadership team member, when you have somebody asked you for a race, you just hand them the book and you say, read the book, and then come talk to me in two weeks. It's quite a fun twist that really teaches that employee they're going to
Mark 16:25
quit, right, you say you say the book and they just quit and a conversation over? Yeah.
Jill Young 16:30
Sometimes. And then there you go. It's either yes or no, at least you know, who's on your team. The the second book is the courage advantage. And I think that might be really helpful for some listeners today. So I'll come back to that. The third book is the thinking advantage, that's just getting everybody in your company thinking, just turning on that creativity, turning on the problem solving in everyone in the company. So you know, gain a thinking advantage. The second book coming back to that one was the courage advantage. And this one, you know, Mark, I think, I know you love this one, you and I have geeked out around this one. But I think you love it just because I know you because it it was born out of just a very curious question that I think some coaches don't even want to ask. And the question really is, you know, we go into all of this coaching, we go into implementation mode. And this is for any company, you go into change management, or you're trying to do something different. And why doesn't it work? Was the question. Everybody wants to talk about why it works, and how it works and all of these awesome results. But you and I have both had clients where we do the same stuff for this client. And like you said, everybody's unique. And with some clients, they just take it and run and go for it. And then other clients just either really struggle and it's painful. You know, they step in every spot of mud they can find or they quit, quit. So I just
Mark 18:09
started talking about it's like, I've heard something on this topic recently. It sounds familiar. I think I was at I was at a talk I was at a workshop and somebody was talking about this concept. Oh, you lead the call. It was the topic. What was the name of the topic? It was? Oh, yeah. Where were we on two years was the idea on two years? Yes. All right. Yeah. So we, so for people who are listening, what the hell are they talking about? So some people are on the journey at different speeds than others, right. So we tell people that, you know, two years journey to be self sufficient and fully internalized. And with with the EOS tools, some people are faster, some people a little bit a little bit slower. And so the question comes up, like for those people who are on a slower journey, if we don't think they're broken? Which, you know, that's a reasonable question, then why would it take them longer. And so we were unpacking that some people just have a slower journey, and that's the path they're on. It's a faster journey. And that's the path that they're on. And so people have to kind of figure out where they are.
Jill Young 19:10
That's right. And it and I think your coaching changes, for sure.
Mark 19:15
your content was really talking about that. So how, need to Yeah,
Jill Young 19:19
thank you, you know, a lot of it is just you got to think about it, as coaches. And I guess, you know, anybody like a CEO or a leader, you know, visionaries, integrators, you could just wake up every morning and just go to work and just do your to do list and work on your rocks. But I think, you know, to be a very effective leader, you got to think about it. What's my purpose today? What am I going to go create today, and you really got to put some thought into it. And we do the same thing with with every single team. as head coach of us worldwide, I'm really passionate about preparation for sessions and reflecting on sessions. So you No, you gotta think about it. Yeah, think about it. These teams, these teams that I really, I investigated it for about a year, my 15 year old does not allow me to call this science, because he says, I don't have enough hard data. So he refuses to let me call myself a scientist doesn't
Mark 20:20
pass the scientific method. Okay, exactly. All right, fair enough.
Jill Young 20:26
You would enjoy my children. Mark, you would have deep conversations with my children? I'm sure they sure would. They really challenged me. But what we discovered, as I as I looked at this, and then I vetted it with lots of other coaches as well. And what we discovered is that really, what was holding these teams back, that were not progressing, or just having the hardest time and start and stop and fail, and, you know, can't get back up. It was courage, you know, and they were lacking courage. And, you know, if you look at psychology and how humans work, at the very core of where we don't move forward, as human beings is, we're fearful of something. In our mind, sometimes it's not real. But we're fearful. So, you know, the opposite of fear. A little bit, you know, we could debate back and forth. So just flipped.
Mark 21:21
I heard I know some guy hear something about Bs and psychology. does that have anything to do with you? Yes,
Jill Young 21:26
I do. Let's see, did I bullshit my way through a psychology degree is that way you're talking about?
Mark 21:31
Well, I just I didn't know the relationship between the two. But I think they are related in some way.
Jill Young 21:37
I do have, I do have a degree in psychology? Ah, okay. Yes, I do. Thank you. I love it. And I, you know, actually, I didn't, I didn't set out to get a degree in psychology. I know you love people who are really open and honest, what I really did is I wanted to just graduate. And I looked around and I thought, what classes are available that will let me graduate?
Mark 22:03
Well, I actually had a pretty similar experience in college, and it was very much like, it wasn't quite, I'm assuming you have the second degree. I had that too. But it was also what classes would be low friction, because I was because I would like them. Because, you know, I would like the classes. And so I had a situation where I was music degree, right. So I had this music degree, and I was getting ready to graduate and I sat down with a counselor. And I was like, How long before I get out of here? She told me was insane. I've been in for four years and think she had like three more years. And I was like, or actually was three plus some really ridiculous number. So we had to get really creative, like if I was going to, you know, be be out of college, anytime, any reasonable timeframe, we had to find a degree that could get me out faster. That was low friction on the classes. And I and I, truthfully, I'll hand you the back the mic in a second. But I truly learned more in that last year and a half. Because I was truly interested. I loved the stuff I was learning and the lessons and the classes and stuff. I took negotiation. I took psychology of ageing, Criminal Justice classes and things that were interesting. And I had some of the most fantastic teachers in that last year and a half and it was totally aimless stuff. By By comparison, and it was, it was a lot of fun and no music. Oh, no, I have Well, there was some music was required to get out of there. And I had like one F in like 16th century counterpoint that I had, I just realized too late in the semester for the drop after the drop date that I was not going to do well with it. So I had to get my GPA to something semi respectable I had to retake 16th century counterpoint in which I got an A the second time for those people who are about to judge me on my ability to do 16th century CounterPoint. So there you go.
Jill Young 23:44
I don't even know what that is. Right. So I'm just impressed. You took it twice. My proudest, my proudest grade was I've just never going to say something that I tell people, they shouldn't say. I've never been a math person. It's because I have not invested in the skill of math. See, there you go. Let's be a math person.
Mark 24:08
The science gets clear on the math. The people who are good at math are people who try really hard at path. It's that simple, unfortunately, anyway. Okay, yeah.
Jill Young 24:17
I just let that I just let that go. Because I like it. Alright, I never tried hard at Mac. Thank you, Mark.
Mark 24:25
I mean, if you wanna if you want to run 26.2 miles, you're gonna have to run 20 miles and 15 miles and 10 miles. And so think of it like that. Like if you don't want to run 20 miles, you think think hard about the relative ROI on running five, like you shouldn't run the five, you know, let go of it exactly
Jill Young 24:43
like it. But I did do really well in statistics. And I was very proud of myself. But that was in my graduate degree. So but let's not talk about that. Let's talk about let's talk about what I discovered because at this point Now we've had now at this point, we're sounding like an infomercial. We're like waiting to get to the good stuff. Wait, there's more. But wait, there's more. But here's really what we've discovered. And it was that there were these three areas that if you could focus on this, mastering courage in these three areas, this is what tended to be apparent in those teams that really got it and really took off. Similar to where you were. You were turning the reflection on them. You got to say that word for me again, you were giving direction that credit? Yes, deflecting the credit. There we go. It takes me a few minutes to learn. But
Mark 25:39
I said I think probably redirection is better, deflection is more getting it off of me, okay. And redirection would be to put it where it's due, and it's on them. I would I would upgrade my
Jill Young 25:48
I like your taxonomy of that. Thank you. There you go. redirecting the credit. So this is this is where it is, it's really the courage to be disciplined. The courage to lighten up and the courage to experiment. And those are really, you know, when I, when I put them together, I was I was very particular with the words that I chose, as I started to observe these, the words that I attached to what I was seeing, but the courage to be disciplined, that it's just things pull us off of our disciplines all the time. I know you had carry over Brunner as a guest, on your podcast. And he talks about that hacked, right, we get hacked. And sometimes it's just the simple little things like have your level 10 meeting, have your quarterly meetings, even if you don't feel like it, just get in the room stick to the discipline. And the the teams who just lacked this courage, they just let every excuse pull them away from just simple disciplines, discipline with their time, their commitments, their thoughts, it's all in there. But there, I have you seen that with some of your teams as well?
Mark 27:05
Well, like, for example, when I'm coaching, or a level 10 level 10 meeting, and there's a lot, it's a simple meeting agenda. And I say like it looks simple. Let's unpack this, there's that there's a there's a book or two between each bullet for each bullet point on that agenda. There's a whole science that goes to as to what that's doing. So lighten up on yourself as you're working your way through getting it to be a good good meeting. But what happens is in the several bullet points of going through the reporting section and to dues and all that there's a lot of subtle steps that get skipped. Like when you're asking done or not done or on track or off track people start to kind of to your to your point of love. The courage work is like they're afraid to be disciplined truly in the moment and say, like, on track or off track or read the whole name of the rock. Yes, every single time. They just want to go We're good. Right? Okay, next. And it's it is it's a fear, it's a fear, they're gonna slow the team down. They're asking too much, they're being too rigid. There. We already know the answer. Why would ask you the question. But that's a discipline, right? And so we go back and say there's, there's a meaning behind that there is a reason I'm asking you to read the whole name of the rock. There's a reason I asked you to say, on track or off track not we're good. And so and make them say it, not you. And the details start to add up in the discipline. And it's it I absolutely believe it's it's this it's a an act of courage to hold to that discipline week in week out.
Jill Young 28:32
And I've even had some teams in their early early week say, well, that's kind of silly, that I'm just asking someone to read from the page, we can all see it. But you're certainly right. There is psychology packed into there. And you know, a lot of times is it's trust me, trust me. And then I'll teach you all of it later, if you want to know. But this is a simple discipline, if you just follow it. There we go. It's,
Mark 29:01
you know, I don't want to I don't wanna belabor the point, but it actually reminds me of how my website got its tagline slash primary message. Give me Have you been to my website like ever
Jill Young 29:15
know that you're doing it wrong?
Mark 29:17
Well, that's the name of the podcast. So the what my main website, it the main page, it says just win. Because losing sucks. And I wanted I just wanted to kind of put the whole yin and yang together there, but the just wins where it came out. My friend Tristan and I were brainstorming on what this is about. And we were talking about it and we just it was a very gut feel to me came off from us, and it just clicked and resonated. And then it took a couple of weeks to sort of unpack why that was what resonated and one of the reasons when, for me the most foundational reason why just when is the primary message on the website is because so often we as leaders, as athletes, performers, high performers, know exactly what we need to do to win win. know exactly when the next step we need to take, but we're not doing it for some reason. And there's lots of reasons that that's the case, because they stack on each other. And so we feel stuck. And because there isn't, there is a next step. And we're just kind of wrapped around the axle on it. And so I wanted people to feel like you know, it's not so it sounds crazy to think that you're pretty close to victory. It's not so crazy to think that you could dive off the diving board, but you're standing at the diving board and been standing on the diving board for years, maybe
30:29
just win, because losing sucks, does suck. This is really your main you may never have that feeling. But I have felt that oh,
Jill Young 30:39
I have. No, I have felt I have been dead ass last before. So I know what it feels like to lose. It's good stuff, though. It's really good stuff. Really good fuel. So now, right in hindsight, it's very good feel.
Mark 30:56
So just courage for the discipline.
Jill Young 30:59
So now I have a second one for you. And I think this is a really good segue. So I love what you did with this tagline just win because losing sucks. So I bet no other coach has that as a tagline. And it was authentically you and it came from your heart. And it's kind of a little bit funny. Like, just when closing sucks. So it I call it light hearted. And that's the second thing that we found is that teams who were teams who were successful teams who had this courage, they had the courage to lighten up, they called it the courage to lighten up. And it's where we really just don't take ourselves so seriously, we can laugh with each other, we can, we can be a little bit silly with each other, I have a whole bunch of examples in there. And it doesn't even need to be humorous. But it's really where we know each other as humans. So it gets into a little bit of that of that vulnerability. And we take off the mask, and we can just lighten up. It's lighten up in your language. So that's what that's what reminded me of your your tagline right there. Like you just said it, it didn't need to be fancy or corporate or stuffy. It was just you and it just has this this light effect to it. For me,
Mark 32:23
my number one personal core value is realness which has to do with authenticity. It has less to do with like honesty for a moralistic sake. It is more about just a naturalistic realness, like it is a quality that has ties to that and it's about comfort with oneself. It's about seeing oneself and, and so trying to strip away artifice and confusing. You know, window dressing is was kind of what that was to me. So I guess like maybe lightening up to me could be just unburdening. You know, it couldn't be the levity of the mood. But it also could be just put down some of the weight you're carrying and focus on what matters most
Jill Young 33:06
totally agree, totally agree. And it absolutely has to do with that authenticity, and authenticity for a company, you know, as an entity to just own who they are, and not worry about what their industry thinks or what their, you know, the generations before them think. So it really is, it really does have to do with taking off that burden, as well. Mark, do you remember one of our very first conversations, you were just a new? You were just a new, a new implementer? You know, not new to coaching and advising for sure. But you had called me and just said, you know, how do you make this work and just doing what you always do? Just researching? And I gave you a piece of advice that I don't give to everybody, but do you remember what it was?
33:55
I don't? Okay, well, I'm gonna pieces of advice you gave me and I don't know which one would have been the one. Well, I'm gonna tell everybody because this is great.
Mark 34:03
I'm in charge of the recording here.
Jill Young 34:05
I know you can edit it out, but you won't because then people really want to know, Mark, you're doing everything right. And now just fucking smile.
Mark 34:17
Okay, so that, yes, I don't know if you've worded exactly like that. But so yeah, so I remember it was you and you and Dwayne in particular. You guys were I don't know if you would repeat it. But I remember that time we were kind of like tag teaming me. Like, you both are like, dude, tone it down. When you you I love your passion, but you're gonna set something on fire and burn it down. Like, could you smile and so I you're absolutely right. I've taken that particular piece of advice very seriously. And I really tried to smile and bring with the infected what you packaged around that was make sure the people you're working with Know that you love them, and that you care about this and bring that caring into this. And don't let just the all direct intensity squash and crush and grind the the fun out of the room.
Jill Young 35:12
Right? Yes. And if I could, if I could listen, or if we could go back and have some kind of, I don't know, an audiologist or something. Listen to this podcast and how much we've been laughing. Yeah, it's so good. And I just don't know, when I first met you that, that that was the conversation, it was just very serious. But I mean, even right now, I mean, you guys can see everybody's smiling. And it's just part of what it's just part of what makes people feel like you do Love them. And that you do care, and that we are going to go on this really kick ass journey together. But I just I just loved it when you just added the smile. It just made the whole package.
Mark 35:55
Well, thank you. I don't think it relates to Ken Scott's work as well. Right? Are you familiar with radical candor, right, so I'm a two by two of ingredients to make high impact, you have to be direct enough that you're heard. And that's that's sounds like, again, that's highly concentrated wisdom, direct enough that you're heard, not really loved the way you just said that. That's all that's in Scotts words, just this organized in a way direct enough to be just barely heard, not to crush the individual if they've got good hearing, right. So if they can hear you with very light touch, you should use a light touch. And so it's something you're looking for heard, combined with a degree of caring for good outcomes for them for their best benefit. So it is that love and clarity combination for me that cocktail of love and clarity. That's probably how I describe it.
Jill Young 36:43
That's right. And I love that that grid, or she talks about, you know, the directness and the caring. And on the other side of that remind me what's on the other side of the two by two. I teach it all the time, but now I'm going blank.
Mark 36:58
Anyway, bottom and underside of the quadrants.
Jill Young 37:01
Yeah, that anyway, when you're not when you're when you're to direct and they don't know that you care. Oh, yeah, that's it. It's just the two notches pass. All right. Pass. All right. I just love teaching that grid because then I you know, I look at everybody, and I'm like, What do you think this person is? And I just write ass? quad. It's just super fun. Anyway, so you know, smile, and then you're not an ass?
Mark 37:28
So yeah, I think there's a lot to that the letter T and what's what's your word? The courage to line up? Yep.
Jill Young 37:35
Just to line up. Yeah, it's the environment. It's their language. It's how they, it's how they coach people, you know, instead of Okay, you know, Mark, your numbers were down for four weeks in a row? it you know, in that? Oh, yeah, this instead it's like, Okay, what are we learning? What can we try? Who? Who could we get to help us? It's that it's that kind of
Mark 38:00
reminder, because you know, when I'm teaching people early on in the process, what good IDs looks like good issue solving? it? Is this clear accountability. I have an issue. And I stole this from somebody, you could probably tell me, you'd probably attribute this back to who you could see examples like I've had to finance. And I've observed that the sales numbers have been off for three quarters in a row, you are the head of sales. What is your plan to resolve that? And so I love the clarity, that language. But you reminded me with the Kim Scott thing is I could add to that, and I because I know you care greatly about success. I'm just not clued in to what your plan is. And if there's a way I can help, I would love to do that. But you clearly you're accountable. And I know you want to crush it. Let's Let's all work together.
Jill Young 38:44
Right? How can we I love that phrase all the time. How can we how can we? And it's just this light hearted approach. All right, we found one more thing. One more thing. Yeah. One more. One more. It and really, it's the courage to experiment. The courage to experiment. And it's the team's who who got stuck, or who didn't finish the process or the you know, the process just didn't work for them because we're too different. I just noticed a lot of them stuck in their old ways, or just even stuck in their own or their old or former thought processes as well. We we could never do it that way. Because it's never been done that way. And it's hard to change things but the but the power of experimenting. Again. I love to experiment. I kind of think I'm a scientist. My kids don't allow me to call myself a scientist. In my family psychology is a soft science. And they pat me on the head. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. All right. Come spend a day in the session with me there's nothing soft about that. But this power to or the willingness So the courage to experiment is really just trying, just trying it a new way. And I do, I talk about some tools in the book where you know, if you're going to change something, but the worst thing to say is we're changing this forever, and it's never going back, you don't get a lot of buy in right there. But just as a team, who if your team wants to have more courage, I use this all the time, well, could we at least try it for a few weeks, and it just gets people out of a rut to where they start to try new things. And then these new things work and they keep some of the stuff and they don't keep some of the stuff. But man, those teams who are just stuck in their old ways, not willing to experiment, they they stayed stuck for a
Mark 40:43
while I love that there's two things I tell my my leadership teams around that same concept. And the first is great leadership is not about getting it right. Get that out of your head, great leadership is about making the call and owning the outcome, whatever that is, like, I've heard enough, we're making the call and it might be great. It might be terrible, but it's all gonna land on me. And I'm gonna adjust or I'm we're gonna adjust together basis of some things are gonna work, some are not. And so just get out of get unplugged from rightness, do get plugged into commitment and moving forward and learning from it and do that. And then I say on top of that, I say there's like, there's lots of things we're teaching in the system. And you're gonna bring me some exceptions, and things are gonna resist those assumptions. And sometimes, we're gonna have debate and we're gonna make the call in or out of the system pure, not pure. There's only one rule, I have one absolutely in alienable rule. And that is, if it works, we do more of it. And if it doesn't work, we do less of it. That's it.
Jill Young 41:41
It's so that again, that's so simple. You know, we talked about in EOS we, we talked about EOS pure, now EOS peers, the 12 notes, right, going back to music, these are the 12 notes. And this is how you play them when we we get it. But they're every team is a snowflake. And so we do customisations and
Mark 42:03
unique snowflake, not fragile, snowflake. Yeah. I've had a few people respond. Like a snowflake. Well, there was a political time when snowflake was labeled as fragile, you know, so we got it. So that was not that long ago. So it made it into the political vernacular. So when I had to be very careful in my particular about climate and ice crystal, those are unique, when they're also very fresh. Anything frozen, anything that melts easy in our hot climate, you don't want
Jill Young 42:40
to find a word, we're gonna find a word you and me and taxonomy, right? Yeah. We will find it. But it's, I love I love that. That number one rule of yours. If it works, we do more. If it doesn't work, we do less that simple. But experiment, you got to experiment to find out what does work. If I had to find out what doesn't work, I just did. I just did a breakout at the EOS conference on IDs. And I've heard of that. Yeah. of that. Yeah. of the IDs, right. Identify, discuss and solve. Yeah. And it was just you, you have to try new things, you have to shout out something that would doesn't work before you can get to something that does. But that's just that's the power of issues. And it's the benefit of issues is that when something isn't as right, as you want it, you get to go in and try again. So all of these things that are on your issues list. They're like little nuggets of gold waiting to be all combined into profit, essentially. So celebrate your issues. It's a chance to experiment.
Mark 43:53
Well, yeah, getting off on that same or getting off that topic into like, Are you familiar with Ryan Holiday? Yeah. And telesystem Yeah. So that this idea and issue solving his problems and, and even ID ideas? It's the way I the way I think about it's like you're if you're at level two, and you want to be at level 10? Well, what's true about that you're not at level 10 for a reason, right? So we're gonna assume there's a reason that you're not there. And so I think those of us who pursue like say, I'm training for a marathon, which I am here, probably a terrible idea. I'm pretty sure it is terrible idea. Actually, now that I'm training in the middle of the summer, I'm very sure it's a terrible, but I called it out and people know about it. And so now I don't know what's gonna happen. So the what happens in training is like, you think you're going to linearly just like add an atom add, and you're going to be at your 26.2. But But that's not what happened or level two working towards level 10. Along level three, an issue pops up some breaks, some don't work. Well, that seems like a derailment from the path, but that's not the case. That's the path That's the path that's that you're not in level 10. Why not? Well, because the issue you experienced at level three. So now you know what you need to do level three to get the other four earlier, how you're going to react to that. That is, that is the way that's the whole reason you train to get from level to level 10 is to find the optimal level three, so you can knock it out of the way and then work your way towards the obstacle, you know, the dragon, the, you know, the epic journey, and what's the dragon the high level three, and you're gonna have to go seek it out and find it and do that for all the way through,
Jill Young 45:31
you know, going back to discipline with that same concept. Both of my boys have picked up their musical instruments throughout the COVID, the COVID, right, can we put that the COVID era, the pandemic era, and, you know, they were in virtual school, there wasn't a lot of opportunity to go do other things. So you know, they were kind of stuck in the house with their instruments. And they got better and better and better. And still Dylan, he's 15. He's the drummer, he'll be listening to Justin in enormously difficult song. And I'll go, you can play that. He goes, Oh, I could never play that three days later. He's playing it, because he practices and it's that discipline of practice. But you've got to master the all of those those levels to get to the 10. But, you know, practice, discipline, obstacle is the way you got to have it all. and embrace it. Embrace it. Yeah, absolutely.
Mark 46:28
What I'm about to say is going to shock you. Oh, dear. We're out of time. Oh, if there's anyone still listening. So using using the zoom was very hard for me, because I don't have a little time counter, I don't have time to look at the clock there. It's like we're very much out of time. So this has been amazingly entertaining for me and listened. So what I don't care. And so that's hopefully somebody will find some value in it to be true to the total, I get a lot of feedback that these are conversations very entertaining, just harder to explain to people why they should listen to it, they kind of gotta be in the right mood.
Jill Young 47:10
Well, I know I learned a lot about taxonomy. And what do you a micro note?
Mark 47:16
microtonal? Microsoft microtonal? music? Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah, for sure. So but I do think there's something to this that we have, I think we can talk about the three, the three colleges and that in and of itself, I think was was worth the worth the ride. And so anything you want to add to the conversation, and then we missed that doesn't, that leaves the picture on? I
Jill Young 47:36
think, I think we did a really good job. It's just it, you just have to keep, you just have to keep going. If I could, if I could sum up the whole book, really all of my books, the latest one coming out in February is called the activator advantage. And it's just all about movement. You know, you can be motivated all day long. But until you actually move, you're not doing anything, but just keep going one foot, one foot after the other.
Mark 48:07
I love the courage is I think there's so much talk about courage in grit and things like that. There's a lot of work on doing in that sphere. But I just recreated things, identify it. And so one of the time again, it was the
Jill Young 48:21
the courage to be disciplined. The courage to lighten up and the courage to experiment. That's the little trifecta. If you think you're stuck, go look at one of those, and see if there's something you can shine up to get unstuck, and keep on going.
Mark 48:38
So in the line of that, what is your passionate plea to entrepreneurs right now.
Jill Young 48:44
I love that. You know, it's entrepreneurs, it's leaders. It's a it's really, and I think it came out of my the third book, that thinking advantage, when I wrote the book, I kind of summed it all up into one sentence. And it's, you know, what, go get a thinking partner. That's my passionate plea. Do you have a thinking partner, somebody to you know, it's not even accountability. You know, there's accountability partners, you can go get a coach, but to have a thinking partner, and this is it. I mean, Mark, you and I have just sat here and thought for an hour like we were thinking partners,
Mark 49:23
to have a thinking I was telling jokes, I don't know. Well, I was thinking, what were you doing? I was trying to be funny.
Jill Young 49:31
Have a thinking partner is not only rewarding, and just it brings tons of joy to the lives of entrepreneurs and leaders who sometimes can feel isolated, but it's also going to help you be a better leader and a bit better strategist, make better decisions. So that's my passionate plea today. Go find a thinking partner. Who is it? Who's your thinking partner?
Mark 49:52
Well, I love that and so two things come to mind. I don't think there's necessarily a specific stratum of thinking that that is because like I was thinking today, like one of the people on my admin team really was teasing out, make enforcing some processes to come into light that I knew as she was doing it, I would never would have done. And I knew that I had kind of asked her to do those. And I was in my own way asking I was don't do that, that won't work. But then I realized I, she had heard different things that I had said, and I knew that she was implementing a process that I couldn't do. And I was like, there's no way I could do this without somebody who thinks differently, and makes that happen. And then there are other people who are very strategic and very brand, very creative. And so there's just different ways that I think, and I can't, I can't do it well, by myself having do it with somebody else is, it's totally a quantum totally
Jill Young 50:47
different experience. I call it co creation. And it's just I could come up with something, and you could come up with something. But if we would just talk about it together, it's gonna be so much better. Because it comes from different points of view. So find yourself a thinking partner.
Mark 51:02
Awesome. This has been great. I'm super grateful. I don't know how long is that we've been doing. But I know it's longer than we had originally planned. And it was wonderful. Such a great, fun time. My whole rest of my day is fired up. Now. I'm excited about mine, too. If somebody wants to find you continue the conversation, check back in on your how to somebody find you.
Jill Young 51:20
Well, I'm a simple person. So find me on LinkedIn. And then we'll go from there. If you just search Jill young Texas, I pop up right there first in the search bar. So Jillian, Texas, on LinkedIn. And from there you can find all the other crazy stuff I do. There's links to my books, and you have a new website, Gil young, calm. Of course, I also have a website at EOS worldwide as well. But LinkedIn is the easiest way to find me. I look forward to chatting.
Mark 51:50
Awesome, thank you so much. Well, that's it for today. So if you're listening to this, please subscribe, share with your friends. If you thought this is useful to get in the hands of somebody else. They won't get any value out of it if you don't get it in their hand. So please do that. Also give us the feedback good and the bad. It's so precious anything you can give to us. We love it, all of it. And it's just grateful for all the feedback and all support gun so far. We will see you next time on you're doing a rock with me. Mark Henderson.
VO 52:19
This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson Leary for more episodes and to subscribe. Go to lyric.cc