Chris Light is one of the founding board members of Principle Health Systems and is in charge of the company's business development and growth. Principle Health Systems focuses on using modern tools and data to help doctors give better personalized care. He's also the founder of Concord Life Sciences, which is a diagnostic lab. But most of all, he's an entrepreneur just like you and me.
Chris Light, he is the real deal. He and his partners are running a phenomenal healthcare business that, among other things, is out on the front lines helping people get tested for COVID-19. He shares several stories about what that’s like right now in the frontlines, both personally and as an entrepreneur.
04:38 - Managing between emotional versus scientific data when determining what's safe or not
07:47 - The current situation of our frontlines
9:01 - Different kinds of COVID19 testing
17:23 - Without proper data, the best way to stop the spread of COVID is following a solid set of practices in the workplace
20:43 - Many people are still wondering, should we be terrified of COVID or is it just a conspiracy?
24:41 - How Chris and his company adapted to the changed brought about by COVID
26:36 - Should we be concerned about the politics of the big pharma and insurance companies?
32:50 - How Chris is transitioning right now as an entrepreneur during this crisis
40:51 - Explaining facts about COVID in a digestible way
46:27 - Safety protocols that make the biggest difference in the fight against COVID
48:47 - How do business owners ensure compliance of safety protocols from their employees and customers
58:42 - Chris' passionate plea to entrepreneurs
GET IN TOUCH:
MARK LEARY:
www.linkedin.com/in/markhleary
www.leary.cc
MIKE PATON:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-light-171260113/
https://principlehs.com/
Production credit:
Engineering / Post-Production: Jim McCarthy
Art / Design: Immanuel Ahiable
July 21, 2020, Wednesday
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, testing, standpoint, big, visionary, world, doctor, business, data, question, positive, wife, integrator, mask, problem, point, healthcare, memory care facility, conversation, entrepreneurs
SPEAKERS
Chris, Phil Walker, VO
Phil Walker 00:00
So we're rolling, cool. We are live. This is you're doing it wrong with Martin Anderson theory, my name is Mark. And I have a passion that you should feel and control your life. And so what I do is I help you get control of your business. And part of how I do that is like letting you listen in a conversation between two people who have a passion for excellence in the entrepreneurial world who are talking about a subject you already know something about. But hopefully it's a new depth, it's a way to get you some nuggets in some ways to break through your own obstacles and break through your ceilings, while being engaged with something hopefully very interesting. If, if not, that may be entertaining at least. But to get you get to some deep information to really put you back in control. And so before we dive into this next guest, I just want to remind you, housekeeping, please subscribe and share and leave feedback, we didn't know what you think. And we need you to get the content in the hands of the people who can use it because it does no good for people to have a problem and a solution that are not connected. It makes a difference. So today, our guest is my friend Chris light. And he is one of the founding board members of principle health system. And he's really in charge of business development growing that business. And that company focuses on using modern tools and data to help doctors give better personalized care, which is very important topic right now, and always has been especially now. He's also the founder of Concord Life Sciences, which is a diagnostic lab. But fundamentally, more than anything else. He's an entrepreneur just like you and me. So welcome, Chris.
Chris 01:30
Thank you for having me, Mark. Saturday.
Phil Walker 01:33
Well, I'm excited to and I want to throw you off guard from the from the very beginning and just ask you, because we're for those I don't know, when you're listening to this podcast, but we are 10 to 14 weeks, I can't keep track of time or three months into the COVID-19 crisis. It's it's challenged people in a lot of ways entrepreneurs, no different. What have you learned about yourself in the last three months?
01:59
Whoo, that's a good question. I've learned most importantly, that I needed to take some time off, which I just did recently, and unplug which in my world, we're on the front line you would consider with COVID. So I would say it's like a kind of a constant fire drill over the past couple months for us. And so I was able to kind of take about eight days last last week, and really turned my phone off lucky to do that because I have business partners. Yeah, that's what I've traditionally been pretty good at. Putting putting time away to get away from work. In traditionally, like, at least once a quarter. I like to take a lot of time off not necessarily a long amount of time, but just frequently and hadn't done that since to start a COVID because of everyone my wife's pregnant. I've got a three year old and so it's great. You're pregnant now. Yeah, yeah, my God, dude. Can't go on airplanes and things like that. And so finally we as like, we have to do it. And we just did a little small staycation. And it reminded me and why it's so important. So that's probably what I've learned is just, there's no excuse not to, you know, get your mind right.
Phil Walker 03:13
So I got a million questions. You just you dropped like a million seeds, like the front lines. The wife's pregnant a staycation renewal partners, every one of those is sort of a deep well. I'm going to go with something tactical, though. How did you pull up a staycation? That was renewing?
03:30
So we did, we went down. So I'm in Houston, Texas, the closest beach here is Galveston. So we decided to go during the week to be crowds, obviously, outside pool and beach. And so that's kind of, you know, as safe as you can be in the public. So we think currently ate all of our meals outside. Or in our wall, my wife and my son ate breakfast in the room. So just to kind of be careful that and then we went to a resort up in Lake conroe. Again, you know, outside pool, we rented a boat, you know, and I think the entire seven days we ate at one restaurant inside. So everything outside a lot a lot of sunlight, as you can see a little dark.
04:19
Looks good. I thought maybe it's the lighting. So how to go into that space. How do you manage your in the healthcare world? I'm struggling to try to put this as a million questions that are all trying to jump out at once. How do you manage the
Phil Walker 04:41
the emotional decisions of risk versus the scientific decisions or that you've got? There's data coming in? And there's we're just gonna do this because there's a lack of data. How do you make the decisions for yourself about what's safe and what's not?
04:58
Yeah, that's That's a really good question. So I mean, ultimately we have, you'd be surprised about the amount of people who come to me and like, well, what should I do? And I'm like, I'm not the authority here on COVID. I'm like, Yes, we're a healthcare company. But I'm not a doctor, and CDC, you know, or an authority on telling people how to handle it. But personally, for my family. My wife's pregnancy has made it a little bit bigger of a deal to me than it would be otherwise, we're in our 30s. Most of the numbers are heavily skewed toward people over 65. So I wouldn't be super concerned, there's not a ton of data on pregnancy. I know two personal stories on pregnancy that didn't turn out so hot. We're sort of COVID. Yeah, we've got a team member here whose wife works on the COVID floor, who they emergency here are emergency c section ICU for a pregnancy. But again, that's not the entire story. So it's a scientific standpoint, you kind of want to look at data over time that you can actually rely on. But so just we've been more cautious than we probably otherwise would be if I was, you know, my traditional friend, my traditional friend group, outside of her pregnancy, but yeah, I mean, I think you look at the data, which we do, and I do, and overwhelmingly the data supports that people in my age group who are not immunocompromised, or have, you know, large factors to be concerned of shouldn't be super concerned. And so I wear
06:36
a mask.
06:38
So I do wear a mask, I'm washing my hands, probably more than I've ever in my life before. Yeah. You know, just trying to be as careful as you can. But you know, I don't know if you have young kids, but I mean, a three year old touches everything and puts everything in his mouth. And I'm like, no matter what I do, if he goes out anywhere, we did pull him out of daycare. So he's staying home full time right now. But other than that, I mean, just trying to be careful. And also not trying to live like a, you know, a hobbit in a hole, either. Life needs to go on. And so at the beginning, especially when Houston went on lockdown, my wife was like, how are you going to go to work? And I'm like, how am I not going to go? I mean, the first month, I probably have worked more hours than I probably would have been 10 years from a standpoint of like, I mean, I literally had to go to my wife and ask permission, not so much as like, I don't know if I was an ask permission. But it was like a frank conversation of like, hey, I need to pass like we are slammed. And not from a financial standpoint, just from like a work and a changing of work. And so it's changed for sure.
07:46
So let's go there. What are you seeing on the front lines? What is slammed?
07:51
Whoa, the big thing in the beginning was just a change of work. Right? So you're virtual all the time? Well, we're not. And none of our employees were none of our team was was virtual. So dealing with that dealing with, well, I'm exposed, but you're also my microbiologist, and I need this person in the lab. Well, I'm not allowed to have you here for 14 days. And so dealing just fire drills, and a lot of them have subsided. And from from that standpoint, from everything to lower staff, when they first got elected procedures, our revenue went through the floor. So we're probably down 60% from a revenue standpoint. So there's just a lot going on, right? And we didn't know what was going to happen with BGP, and so is just, are we furloughing? Are we laying off? Can we afford to stomach the, you know, the revenue, and so it was just a lot, a lot of things going on. But from the front line standpoint, if you're referencing like COVID, I can tell you in the beginning, we were seeing 2% positives, as of like, last week, we're at 30% of tests come to the lab are positive.
Phil Walker 08:57
Really? Okay. So give us some color around that. What are you testing? How many tests are you doing? and for whom and kind of get some context? I think that's a big problem with the data that people like take a number in. And they don't know what the background
09:10
of that is. Yeah. So in the beginning, it was a lot of lot of negatives. We're doing COVID night. So I do three different types of tests. We do COVID-19. Molecular PCR testing, which is kind of like your gold standard CDC testing, right. The CDC validated the method and basically gave it out to everybody and said, Hey, this is public health. We need everybody to have this and so they gave the recipe. And that's the swab testing that's either throat, throat or nasal. Yeah, and it goes pretty far back. So then we also have a rapid antigen test, which is also a nasal pharyngeal swab issued under an FDA emergency use authorization. It's a 15 minute test. That is what you will most commonly find it like, maybe a walk in Er, mobile, minor er walk in urgent care if you're leaving with instant results, it's going to be what we're using or something comparable. And then you have we also do antibody testing, which is, you know, your idg, AGM, which is really indicated for post exposure. Now you have antibodies. And so as a disclaimer, if people actually hear this in any time, there's a lot of people marketing that as detection, and it's incorrect. And right, so it really the antibody is for post exposure. If you have antibodies, you had an infection at some point. Right? So in this 30%, these are on the PCR tests, or what all PCR is what I've given you the antigen test, we haven't I mean, it literally launched this, why don't have enough data, and haven't followed it yet. But that 30% is what I was on the PCR.
Phil Walker 10:54
And those antibody tests, of course, are what everybody was hoping would be such the Savior. Looks like it's not really delivering a lot yet, because we don't know how long the antibodies live in us.
11:06
So yeah, it's, it's tough. The data that we have now support that they be long enough for sure for us to test them. But the big thing is, with most viruses, you don't get them again, assuming there's no mutation, the strain, right. But there's not enough data on COVID-19 to stay. Hey, if you had it, you can't get it again, tomorrow. Now, there's not a whole lot of cases. Most of the cases that came out, they thought was faulty testing, meaning they were diagnosed on the front side on the on the first go round, but they actually didn't have COVID. But yeah, that's kind of, you know, remains to be seen how that how that plays out. So yeah, we haven't seen a huge demand from the antibody testing, like we are in the detection, PCR testing, which is echoed, on a one case, no one, but from our manufacturer, who's global. They have that my rep has said the same thing to us like, yeah, we're just not seeing the demand that we were expecting on antibody testing.
Phil Walker 12:08
So the 30%. And I guess I want to go because I can't help myself, just the concept of specificity that, you know, we're looking at false positives, false negatives, the false negatives look very solid, like, No, actually, this time around is false negatives, were saying, I've seen people say that it's upwards of 70%, false negatives, due to a lot of factors. Not necessarily test, it could be the how the test how the samples handled, it could be the examiner, it could be other factors. But if you're positive, you're pretty much frickin positive. So if you're seeing an upward trend and an acceleration of positives, that's that's a real thing.
12:47
Yeah, I mean, I can I can take that both ways. And we've had people tell us, hey, there's no way I'm positive, to personal friends who were tested in Florida, and both positive asymptomatic. And so we've had people like that, hey, I don't have symptoms, how can you call me positive? And yeah, you're, you're right, in a sense that the biggest air on a PCR test is, is what we would call pre analytical meaning handling of the specimen collection of the specimen, Miss labeling, things like that, which are highly, I mean, we use robotics in our lab. So it's once it gets there, and then we voted, it goes, you know, the human error element goes super down. Not to say it doesn't happen. It's it happens in every lab in the world at some very minute percentage, right. But in general, any air and testing from that standpoint, when you're using a gold standard PCR testing, is going to be mostly panalytical errors if that what the result is is pretty solid.
13:46
So who's getting access to the testing that you're doing? Is this just anybody off the street? Or who is? Who's getting tested?
13:52
Yes, so we support a handful of different people. So we support in Houston, around around 75 skilled nursing facilities, which is like what people call a nursing home skilled nursing facilities, and what we would call l tech hospitals. So long term acute care, it's kind of like a level above a nursing home. And so they have ice us and things like that. So from that standpoint, we serve as part of the riskiest population in the world. And then we also have a drive thru at our main location. So you can drive through nine to five Monday through Friday. And I would suspect again, I don't know. But that's just you know, me or you wake up and say, hey, I want to go get it. I want to get it done. Now, I'm not going to the doctor, I'm not going to er, something like that. Right. And then we are supporting employers as well. So we get I mean, I'm probably get five, six calls a day from employers saying I had an infection or I had someone who came in contact or I just want to be safe, or you know, and so we do mobile testing for them as well. They can either come on site and we'll test them or we'll send a mobile team to them.
14:57
Have you done the test? Twice? Yeah. It was traumatic for you. No big deal.
15:05
Your eyes water for sure was self administered, which you shouldn't do But okay? But you really
15:16
get the heebie jeebies. I'm like, actually, I'm actually I'm just sort of wiggling in my chair like imagining this thing to like tickling my brain. It's
15:22
horrible. I wouldn't give it to someone else to self administer being that I train people how to use it. I'm familiar with how deep it needs to go. And when it's uncomfortable to keep going, I kind of know. Not just me. But it'll make your eyes water, it's uncomfortable. You'd be surprised I've administered it to people in training. I've done live patients in training just to show staff how to do it. I've had everything from people like, you know, they'd like start to shake, which is super uncomfortable, because it becomes almost a little bit more unsafe, all the way to people who don't feel it. They're just like, expected this to be so bad.
16:04
Wow. So I guess you were negative both times? Right? Yeah.
16:13
So we have, I don't know, 250 280 employees now something like that. 250. somewhere around there. We've had a handful, probably 15. positives. So it's a fire drill every time. Right? I mean, we're testing everybody in the department, you know, distancing and you know, things like that. Luckily, we haven't had anybody from a standpoint that has like most of the people that have tested positive aren't like, what I would call like, mission critical from the standpoint of I haven't had a lab tech, or my lab director or a microbiologist. I haven't had somebody like that. Actually, that's not true. One, I had one which created a massive problem one. Yeah.
Phil Walker 16:51
Well, so so I know, we're kind of in anecdotal territory. So I want to keep this really, you know, giant pile of asterisks on this. So in terms of you get a positive, what have you seen about the risk of spread and how your practices have kept you insulated? Because I'm trying to compare thinking of like the landscaper, and the fence guy where like, there's no social distancing. And if one of those guys gets it, they're all getting it in my opinion. Without data. You're you have had it you've got a big population, you've got practices in place place, you know, what are your beliefs and practices? And how has it played out in terms of spreading?
17:27
Yeah, I can give you a couple cases again, hardcore asterisk, because this is not research. Yeah. Any emails of people telling me how stupid I am.
17:37
You might just keep an email. Usually at the end of this, I asked how do people get ahold of you? You might just say, don't.
17:45
So I can give you a handful examples. But I we tested a restaurant 26 employees 50% positive.
17:52
Oh, whoa, that's worth 50% positive now what were they symptomatic?
17:57
I only saw the back end date I didn't do and grown it. Have a have a personal friend who owns eight restaurants. Their full service, you know, waiter everything. Bar. They've had three and not one time that is spread. They test the whole restaurant.
18:18
This is your friend of yours. So do you believe that they have tight processes in place? Yeah, it's uh, they're, they're pretty pretty well put together. Because it's all over the map. In my experience, people claim to be very process driven, and you see them and they're like, That's not at all what you're supposed to be doing. But do you believe that that is a result of adhering to good practices?
18:38
It certainly wouldn't hurt. I mean, I can't tell you. That's the reason but it certainly doesn't hurt. I can tell you in our personal workspace. The amount of times we've seen it spread was one time and they carpooled together, as expected, because it's one of the big things are recirculating air. Most cars re circulate air conditioning,
18:57
no masks, you assume no, no mask and carpool.
18:59
I would doubt it. Yeah, I wouldn't doubt it. But so and then my best friend who lives in Florida was positive, he has three kids and a wife's decided to not quarantine himself after being positive with three kids and still slept in the same bed with his wife and did not pass now granted varier pentamatic would wear a mask after he got positive, but very asymptomatic. From the standpoint of He's like, I wouldn't missed work if I didn't know it was COVID. Right? I would just you know, have a little headache or something like that. But he didn't pass it anybody and I tested his children. Well, how did you discover he had it? Or what made him think the test? Ah, he made a poor life decision and went to a nightclub for a birthday and someone else was like, hey, and so you could get checked and then he kind of had to feel you know, fuzzy and, you know, wow. That's all it takes. That's it. Yeah. So,
20:00
how much of your world is data? Like, are you processing data in your mind all the time? Or is it just as coming up when you have to really deal with it?
20:08
Yeah, no, I'm, I'm not a super high detail data person. We have people like that on our team, that I pull that data from, like data that I mean, 30% I get
Phil Walker 20:21
where I'm trying to get at is distorted perceptions, like so you know, if you go to the ER, every ER doctor is just afraid of skateboard, right? Yeah, it's like, skateboards are evil. Because all they do is they see skateboard accidents all day long. And then, you know, the skateboarders are like, I've been writing this thing my entire life. You know, that's, that's not what I experienced. So So we, as a public are trying to figure out, is it? Should we be terrified? Or is it all a conspiracy? And obviously, it's somewhere in between? So how do you balance this what you know, your set of anecdotes, the data you have access to? And sort of gauge the sense of truth? How do you find the sense of truth?
21:04
Yeah, I mean, I've vacillated both sides. I can tell you, I'm not a person who watches the news at all, I consume very little news, like from traditional type of news sources, right. So like TV and things like that. I have looked at the CDC data several times, it's not a daily thing for me, but I've looked at it. And so to me, like I said that the thing that makes me feel most comfortable is it's very evident where the overwhelming percentage of deaths are coming from is from elderly and immunocompromised. And so I think if you fall into one of those categories, you should be very concerned. And I think if you don't, you should still be very safe, because it's responsible. You know, I don't think asking someone to wear a mask. I mean, how I guess that's become political, from what I've heard now.
Phil Walker 21:55
I don't get I don't get that at all. But one small thing to ask for, exactly, we shut the damn whole state down for weeks. And you're like mask is where you're drawing the line. Please, move, move, move your priorities to something more useful. Anyway, I hope I offended like about everybody. I think I said that.
22:14
But yeah, so I just think it's, you know, but I don't think we need to hold ourselves up in our house and not do anything. I also just think that's unhealthy in general. But yeah, there's some burn between and then as a, as a business owner. You know, I can tell you, when we were locked down, I was like, we can't dislike my business will go away, as well, a lot of doctors and a lot of hospitals. You know, people don't understand, a lot of people don't understand, like, oh, hospitals must be killing it. I'm like, I think Memorial Hermann posted, like a $95 million loss during the hospitals make money by performing procedures, like surgical procedures, right. COVID is not like a big boom for business for them, you know? And so just like us, so from that standpoint, again, that's a biased view to have. And so I'm like, What do you work? You know, but I recognized simultaneously, if I wasn't in the business owner hat at that point in time, like, I don't know what I would have been saying, but I'm, you know, I didn't say that. See, so?
Phil Walker 23:20
Well, the part of the question, or part of the challenge is the we are who is the we, we need to get back to work. It's not binary, you can't just send everybody back into the streets, because the risk is not equally distributed. And your ability to to adapt your business is dramatically different. And I do you think there are businesses who have barely had to adapt at all? And there are businesses who no amount of adaptation can can really help them?
23:44
Sir. I agree with you on that. Yeah, there's there's businesses that will never be the same their businesses that will disappear, and then there's people that this poured gasoline on the fire for them, you know?
23:54
Yeah, that's, that's, that's for sure. A big issue. And I think that when we push back on it politically, with the, with the greater we, it just creates for an irrational fight.
Phil Walker 24:04
Like, who's we have, every individual should be saying, I need to get back to work. Even if you're, you know, and you're if you're a pizza, or was that guy in New York, I think they were jersey. He was like, you know, this is my, this is my life. I need to be serving pizza. Yeah, I think that guy should be advocating for himself. Yeah. And but I do think he needs to defend himself, because that's survival. That's how it works. But that's not that's not to say that he should be allowed to just go back to normal. that's those are different sort of opposing counsel, you know, you there's a there's an advocacy for yourself. And there's an advocacy for other people. And there's, there's a natural polarity there. So have you guys had to adapt?
24:44
Oh, a ton. Yeah. So when we first started, so, one of the things we support a lot of musculoskeletal physicians, right. So when we first even with when everything went telemedicine, we had COVID testing Well, people didn't Want to go to the doctor, they wanted to go to telemedicine? So at first we we started, okay, well, then we'll launch direct to consumer, meaning if the doctor sends us an order, we'll mail it to the physician. Well, the FDA didn't like that idea. So they don't again, because it's a self collection, right? Even with introductions, and yada, yada, yada. And most of the doctors were afraid. But so we started basically offering lab tests where we would send people to people's homes very hard to do from a scaling standpoint, but you know, to some degree of extent it work. Now, people are no problem going to get swapped and things like that. So we kind of draw that drew that back. But yeah, I mean, you just kind of focus in what we do our businesses, you know, we have like four or five different verticals, that we primarily drive revenue for us, we just try to pour gasoline on the ones that are working and hope they'll support the rest of the team, you know, which is part of the way we design the business in the first place. Because healthcare is really super ever changing. And so But yeah, I mean, we, we, the way we delivered care changed a little bit. I mean, we didn't have like a massive pivot, like, Hey, we used to do this. And now like, I'm not a gin distillery that was like, now I do, you know, hands hand sanitizer. Like that, but the way we delivered care, you know, we had to put it a little bit there.
Phil Walker 26:24
So, as you describe that talked about how you got pushback from insurance and that kind of thing, how much of your world and everybody's world should we be concerned about the politics of the big companies, and his thinking Ron barshop, who was on this, this podcast before really has a stance about transformation. And he'll point to an awful lot of big bad guy players who are not, who he believes are not good for the evolution and for better outcomes. But I'm not pointing one way or the other. I spent some time this morning reading through some of the data on the therapeutics, remdesivir and hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine. And I was I was kind of stunned about how, how shallow I was, here's a study, here's an opinion and conspiracy theory, like its own, it's the How much do we have to worry about politics and influence of large pharma and and world organizations whose opinions are politicized, contaminating good health care, good decisions, good data, good outcomes?
27:39
I mean, specifically to kind of answer that question, I don't feel that I'm qualified to answer that question. I'm in general, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not either. So that's good. Like the whole, you know, the vaccines kill people thing?
27:55
I
27:58
yeah, I don't know if I'm qualified to answer that question. I
Phil Walker 28:00
take it to your experience. So like, have you have you tried to do business in a way because your mission is about better health care, you know, being physician centric, make make it possible with new ways of doing things so doctors can give better care? Sure.
28:17
Do you find political opposition to that that is dramatic? Or do you just have to do regular entrepreneurial bit by bit transformation?
28:28
I would say not necessarily political opposition. I mean, although it's well documented that the political medical lobby is, like the largest in the world, not i'm not part of the hospital political lobby. We don't have those kind of dollars. But uh, it's it's well documented that that, you know, big pharma and big hospital association, their lobbies are huge. And I think there's a lot of things in healthcare that are completely backward. I wouldn't say I have political opposition, we definitely have healthcare payer. I don't even know how to call it opposition. And I struggle to think of it because I try to put myself in their shoes too. And so they run a business simultaneously, right? And so what do you do in your business, you grow, you vertically integrate, you do all these things to make a rock, you know, but some of them have gotten quite large, to where people like Ron would argue now that they're dictating care, which is kind of a whole new scope of like, Are you my health insurance company? Are you now determining if I get the surgery or the medication that my doctor says I need? You know, and there's definitely there's, there's, there's documented truth to that in lawsuits?
Phil Walker 29:40
Well, I actually had an experience like that a couple years ago, I had chosen a doctor through my network and it was a Methodist doctor to do a procedure or I think it was Methodist. And whoever was with somebody I chose top tier recommended in my insurance company would not stop bugging me to say like, Hey, you know this another doctor closer, you know, give me cheaper? Yeah, I mean, cheaper and closer, and they're very qualified. And I was like, I got this like, and I was very surprised. Yeah, but they let them do let me go. They didn't harass me too much, but they called me at least three times to make sure.
30:12
Yeah. Well, and you'll find, but you're, you know, educated, you know, a leader like person who doesn't just take no for an answer. So it's like, just imagine the average person who gets up like, Oh, yeah, I'll just go over there. You know? So for sure. I mean, obviously, you chose that doctor through some form of, you know, qualification, whether it be peer group friends, referrals, things like that. It's one of the hardest things in healthcare is, is there's no scorecard, for example, like, like a baseball player on a, you know, there's no average on your, you know, there's no era or things like these, these things with, it's very hard to drive through and kind of Peel those peel those layers back and healthcare to determine who's a good doctor.
Phil Walker 30:53
Yeah, for sure. And I think, well, I've talked about this at length, it's not a consumer driven market. It is it is, is for cut for lots of reasons, I can't even get to the bottom of myself, but because the customer, the patient doesn't know that they need to know. They don't they expect that the white coat means genius, media, godlike. And I say that with absolute admission that that was me, like, I really did not understand that the human walks in that door, that may or may not have a bad day, that may or may not be thinking about me because of what's going on in their world. And that I really had to advocate for myself, human human, not Dr. superhuman. And, and when I started pushing hard to get answers and push back like, well, I've heard about this procedure, or this medication, or whatever, I found, to my shock that people would be like, well, that's a good point. And I was just like, What do you mean? That's a good point? Like, are you supposed to have thought that through? And, and that's not the case? Not at all, as some people do, but some people don't?
31:52
Yeah, yeah, my wife had the same exact experience. Ultimately, she discovered that she had something that took a long time to figure it out. But she would walk in with a file, and doctors would just be like, she would ask them questions about because, you know, like, it was, it's a rare thing that she that she had. And so it's like, ultimately, like, you might have had a week of training in med school, you know, what I mean? Or even maybe a chapter and, and she would really be super prepared on herself. And, in general, that's just a good rule of thumb, especially for you know, as like a PSA is, you know, advocate for yourself in anything that you do, but especially in your healthcare. Nobody's perfect, but they mean, I mean, doctors, meanwhile, they went to school to treat you and they took an oath to, you know, to take care of you. But it's, it's, you should advocate for yourself and look for therapies that you think may work and doesn't mean, you're gonna go tell them what they need to do for you. But it's more about like, Hey, this is an open conversation. And if you're open for ideas, and we can kind of pick some ideas back and forth.
Phil Walker 32:49
Yeah, for sure. So what do you do? Do you find yourself as a as an entrepreneur right now? Trying to craft solutions? Are you full of ideas? Or are you just kind of on the ground executing what's what's on your mind in the transition from the old world, the new world as an entrepreneur?
33:11
Yeah, um, so we had a huge plan for the year that we could, you know, like me, and everybody else kind of crumpled up, throw out the door for 2020. I would say it's hybrid. So I'm lucky enough. So I've three primary business partners. And so that comes with some luxuries of being you know, we have to execute and be on the ground sometimes. But we also have some of the luxuries of not having to do it all ourselves and figuring that out, which allows us to work on the business quite frequently.
Phil Walker 33:42
Will you describe that as a luxury, but I will tell you, from my experience, that it is the only tool that allows you to scale and grow. If you keep trying to do it all yourself, that is a recipe for burnout, frustration and bad results. And it's the only thing that gives you the ability to make an impact is to figure out how to enroll others and allow them to use their gifts to carry the burden with you. And so don't minimize that if you've got three partners that you trust and count on. That is a huge secret to success. Yeah,
34:08
yeah, no, I, I've had the bad partner do horrible the luxury to, you know, the ones that that I currently have that, you know, it worked out really well. We like each other a lot. But so, we're executing, obviously, from the standpoint of like, I can tell you like my biggest pain point today, hands down is I can't get results out faster than anybody wants. Some people want the results yesterday when they, you know, didn't get they want their their results before we actually swab them, you know, unfortunately, it's just not the world. It's not how the world works. And so and then people will do some research like, well, it only takes an hour on the instrument or like, Yeah, but the logistics of like getting everything prepared and getting, you know, it's just not that simple, and that we're receiving more samples right now than our daily capacity, which Just creates a backlog in itself. Like my biggest, like, if you if you will say, Hey, are you on the ground? Like, yeah, I'm in that problem right now. And I don't think there's any way around it. On my team. I'm the most involved on the laboratory side. That's primarily my background. And so yeah, that's, I'm dealing with that on a day to day basis right now. Big Picture, I can tell you, at least amongst my partners, like, I think we're going to, at some point, like, if you look at history, things like this have happened. And so we'll get back to whatever normal is right. And so we look at, I mean, we just hired, we have a, we have a physician practice, we just hired three new providers, right? We just signed an acquisition to, to buy another practice. And so we're looking at, you know, hey, it's business as usual. Let's get back to work and keep growing. And so yeah, it's a combination of both.
Phil Walker 35:59
So I just so there's two types of entrepreneurial leaders that in the system that I teach EOS, we talk about visionaries about integrators. The visionary is typically the emotionally motivated, take a bigger bite of the future, one outside type of leader, the integrator is more, we have a plan, we're going to execute on the ground data driven, less emotional, eat comfortable, hard conversations, which bucket Do you kind of think of yourself in? Are you allowed to say both? You can you can say whatever you want, I've got I probably challenged you
36:36
know, I can tell you for 100% certainty, my business partner, James is visionary in our company, they can move way faster than I could ever imagine. I mean, he'll close a deal for 300% of what we can do. And he's like, well, we'll just figure it out. Yeah. So from that standpoint, he's definitely from that standpoint, I see him as a visionary. I would say. I mean, I guess I feel like we work so much on the business that we we have a team, so I'm not you know, we're not a 15 or 25 person company. So we have a level of management that we get to work with. To integrate what we want done, right,
37:25
you got a players and they can get the job done on the field.
37:27
Yeah, well, don't get me wrong, we support the management team, but I'm never in like, we're never in like the muck of it from the standpoint of like, training someone I mean, I guess, to dumb it down simply like, I would not be the person. If this was a restaurant, like, Hey, this is how you put the cheese on the sandwich, just like I would never be at that level, I'd begin with the manager of the restaurant, you know, and saying, Hey, you got to cover this. That's, that's, that's what I would tell you that I'm both not for sure. Not nearly as visionary as, as my business partner, James, who is our ultimately sits as our CEO. But definitely a hybrid of both.
Phil Walker 38:06
Yeah, so I hear that and to kind of backtrack on what I said about challenging it, people can be can have the tendencies of both. But it's very, very difficult to do them at the same time, because they fight each other. And so you're constantly trying to bite off more and then rein yourself back in. And it's this really internal conflict that entrepreneurs really struggle with. But so what happens is like, if you have visionary tendencies, but you've got a great visionary, you can sort of like settle down because you like, like, I don't, the ideas are, like, Oh, I have to do is play. Like, there's somebody looking out in front of the ship. And so I was kind of sensing that you were might be in kind of an integrator category, like, like, we have a plan, and my job is to execute the plan. And if we have an obstacle, I got a guy, and my guy is gonna have a bunch of ideas that can help us plow through this obstacle. I need it so I can just execute it because you seem to have like a calm, cool demeanor. And visionaries
38:58
tend to be a little bit excitable, and antsy. And in your visionaries. James, is that your guy? Yeah.
Phil Walker 39:04
So you match. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'll be totally fine. But visionaries right now are all as a species includes me get overwhelmed with Oh, my God, I found another problem we need to solve and we didn't solve the last 100 that I thought of yesterday. And and so it's, it gets a little tense. And so having a great integrator, like you cannot be overstated. how powerful that is to be able to give them like, okay, you're right, you're right, we have a plan, I can let go of 97 of those ideas. And these three might be good, you know, yeah, those three are good, keep thinking about them and that we'll talk about them next week. And that synergy, I just that is the recipe for a healthy leadership team. And so your integrator energy, your integrator commitment to the plan, is just, if I've not already underscored it's so it is so valuable and you are rare and they're in there and that tendency, that ability to do that is like look like one in five, compared to how many visionaries are out there, which is one in four of the population. So very rare. Are you familiar with? I'm sure you are the culture index. Yeah. So James is a is a trailblazer. Okay? Yeah. So what that typically does for a guy like you is fuels you up, and you can, you don't need to worry about kind of looking forward as much as just looking around and like keeping the house clean. And you know, and like, oh, fire, I know how to put fire out fire extinguisher, I put the fire extinguisher there. And so and I know how to use it.
40:35
Whereas like, the visionary has no idea where the fire extinguisher is. You guys need to put a better fire suppression system. And now I'm gonna go back and find another problem.
Phil Walker 40:50
What do you tell the average person? I mean, happy to have this conversation we're having right now is I think intended to try to like make this digestible because I think by and large, everything we're seeing on the news is not digestible. And I think that the general public is acting a little irrational. Yeah, and it's easy. And I do it I criticize people for acting like sheep with no shepherd. Yeah. But it's really kind of tricky. It's really tricky to try to sort the science out. I mean, so how many when you when you the last 10 conversations with friends and family who were probably along these lines? You know, what, what kind of advice you were to be thinking of this?
41:29
Yeah, I mean, I think I kind of already mentioned it. So my parents are in the elderly category. And so I've obviously my mom's a school teacher, which, you know, obviously, there have been pushed back, I mean, from Trump's administration is wanting to open schools, which I don't have an opinion on, but she has an opinion on my mom, obviously, she's in her 60s. And so, just, my parents are smart people that, you know, you talk to them as far as like, Hey, you just need to be safe, like, you know, and they have grandkids around and things like that. But I think it's kind of like what I said earlier, like, people, it's very evident if you are in a category that is at risk, and if you are you need to be incredibly careful. And if you're not, then you still need to be responsible and careful to kind of get the same behind us. But I don't get blown out of proportion. Either way, you know, not overly scared or overly confident.
Phil Walker 42:25
We you Yeah, so I agree with that. It's still hard to make a tangible I can say, though, that my experience was that my uncle called me a couple weeks ago and told me that my grandmother had died. Yeah. And she was 97 years old. And I'm wasn't overly surprised to get the call. But even through all this, I was surprised when he said, yeah, it was a COVID death. And I won. I just I just know, you're 97. That's not that's why you died. And there is truth to that, too. But the situation was she was in memory care facility. And, you know, Friday, five o'clock every Friday. We're clean. Everybody's clean. Everybody's clean. We're clean. Good. Monday morning, one of the moment one of the Monday mornings, we have a situation. Yeah, she has symptoms on a Saturday or Sunday. She is labored breathing on a Monday, they make the decision and the life on Tuesday. Wow. That fast. And so, you know, I'm not saying that robbed her of the last 10 years of her life, because that is not the case. She was on the you know, that was not the case. But there were healthcare workers who came in infected and, you know, something like 12 or 16 health care providers in that, in some capacity that their staff were positive eight patients positive, all older, had to shut down the memory care facility because they didn't have a staff to run it. And that's, that's the issue to me. I'm not bitter that my 97 year old grandmother died.
44:04
But I think the the concern is, you know, what were they doing? What were those staff doing? And, and how do people think about that?
44:12
Yeah. Yeah, that's, unfortunately, that's the issue. And assisted living, skilled nursing, you know, it's not, obviously, these these. These folks are not super mobile. So it's not like they're walking out and leaving. It's, you know, it's the catering company. It's, you know, the laundry, it's the nurses who left and came back, you know, and it's all brought in by employees. And so as soon as they shut down visitors, that's just really what it is. And so we have a team, I've got a team of mobile phlebotomist who, like I said, I mean, we service around 75 facilities now throughout Houston. And so we had, I think we only had one or two positives, from the phlebotomist on our on our side. But we started testing them more frequently just out of you know, responsibility. Like, we just felt like that was the right thing to do. Okay, we should be testing these folks more frequently. Because the worst part about it is, in that world is like, our phlebotomist could have a route of four facilities in one day. Yeah. So it's like, then you just start going bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, and you're just taking it with you, you know. And at the beginning, it was like, you know, it kind of came in waves. But before it was super, like, were became this huge problem. It was like, you know, early March, where it wasn't that big of a deal. And then by the latter half of March, it was like a big, big deal. And getting people just to be like, hey, you have to wear a mask and these facilities, you know, in the beginning, there was a little bit of pushback. And then now it's like, it's just standard, like, you know, it got to a point where it's like, no, you're going in there and a week we didn't before then wear masks. You just gloves, you know, you go and draw blood. Now we're at the point where you're in glove, you're in gloves, masks, a face shield and a lab coat. So it's, and then we're testing them, you know, frequently, to make sure But yeah, I mean, that's, that's a really sad story. I'm sorry to hear that. But I
Phil Walker 46:06
appreciate that. Like I said, I, I miss her, and that it's sad that she's gone. I'm not putting that on COVID, that that was part of that was part of life's journey. I shutting down the memory care facility. That's not my problem. that's their problem. And it is a problem. It's a big problem. So what are the other other cornerstones of your safety protocol that you just sort of like this is inalienable? And these are the things that we think make the biggest difference?
46:37
Yeah, I mean, they're pretty well documented. It's literally wash distance mask. I mean, it's that's nothing new. Anything, I mean, forgive me wrong. We've got thermal thermometers that we check people when they come in our buildings and things like that. Guess but it's, the formula is the formula that we've been taught for a while, then people don't want to necessarily follow it. So I mean, if you can stay away from people in close quarters, wash your hands, keep your face clean. And the big thing is, a lot of people don't we haven't talked about but not only wash your hands, but don't touch your face, it's really common thing to do. I do. Oh, my God, I can't stop. Toby doesn't come to your arms. You know, it's got to get in pretty much your nose in your mouth, right? And primarily.
Phil Walker 47:23
That's exactly what I said, when I get on a soapbox. But I have no right to be on. I say that the government and the leadership, and the spokespeople are talking about policy. And it is open closed businesses. And that has nothing to do with you as an individual who just needs to keep that virus out of your nose, your mouth or your eyes. That's it. That's and so we don't talk I don't think that people spend enough time sort of refocusing their perspective on like, okay, I've heard the policy conversation, and I agree with it. I don't agree with it. I'm about to leave the house. Where does the virus live? How do I keep the virus out of my eyes, my nose and my mouth? And I think it's just that simple.
48:01
Yeah. Yeah. Now there is the gray area of is it airborne? Or is it droplets? And what's the difference? But, but it's still the pot, but the process is still the same. And there's still an odds game there.
48:14
And you feel better off even if it's airborne, if you have a mask on, you know, yeah, for sure.
Phil Walker 48:19
So what, you know, people I'll pick at Walmart, because Walmart coming up not coming after me. But they are I think they're the most maligned in terms of being the most inconsistent with their advertising strategy. In the experience you have in the store, they their ads look like they're the icon of sanitation and in protocol. And I've been told, because I have not gone but that you go to a Walmart, and it is chaos in there. So that's just a reference point. How do you as a business owner, ensure compliance and make sure that people are actually doing the processes and protocols that you did you outlined for them?
48:56
Yeah, it's that that's a, I don't want to call it a struggle. But that that is something we deal with the amount of complaints we've received of such and such it's not doing what they're supposed to do, right, or they're not wearing their mask or. And so what we've tried to do is empower our managers from a standpoint of so the question comes up, okay, so we have cubicles in some of our offices, right? Do I have to wear a mask of the cubicle and so to me, I'm sitting at my desk if I was going to require it, I think I should probably have it on right now. Right? But you sit below the cubicle, there's walls above you. And if you're sitting at your computer to me again, I don't have a huge issue with that. But the minute you get up and leave your cubicle I you need to be in a mask and on our on our premises. And first of all, now, I think it's mandated in Houston anyway. I don't think it is. But uh, yeah, we've received multiple complaints. And so what we've tried to do is empower managers to kind of make those decisions to where if they have the right people up there. That's what we're dealing, but trying, you know, we try not to run, you know, I don't know what the right word is we try not, you know, we try not to rule with the iron, you know, kind of buys scare tactics and things like that. And so we try to create an environment that encourages people to follow the rules, because they want to follow the rules not because, you know, necessarily they have to. And so we've sent multiple emails about like, hey, you're part of the solution to the overall greater good of society. And so we've had multiple emails go out from, you know, from us, like me, and my partners, or from our HR director, saying, hey, look, the numbers are bad, but they don't have to be if you do X, Y, and Z, like you are part of the solution here. And But yeah, I mean, we've, we've had multiple people who don't follow the rules, and so they get to speak to, you know, manager.
Phil Walker 50:47
So, how big a problem is that for you? Um, and I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm trying to do is say that if you, here's my, here's my message, like, I won't be indirect, I believe that if you don't think this is a problem, you are lying to yourself as a business owner, if you think you're just gonna say, like, follow the protocol, please. That's not what happens. Like, yeah, you have to really get in there and motivate and inspect the process to the enemy. He has like a great reputation for how well they've they've changed. I've been there a bunch, and they're not perfect at all. And I have complained for sure. Because I was literally they come in the early days, they had this big sign it said, we are going to come to your for the pickup for groceries, we're going to come to your passenger window. Okay, that makes sense. And then somebody walks right out of that front door walks right to the driver's side window. And I'm like, do you see that sign? And she says to me, I've never read that.
51:43
It's like, Are you kidding me? And so I got a little frustrated. Yeah. And she remembers that conversation I trust. She came to the other side of the door, other car, we finished the conversation.
Phil Walker 51:59
So I'm saying like you, I think it's, I think it's important to, to say like, hey, it's not easy for you either. And we're working on it. And we're, and we're doing it and how are you? Is it education? Is it like inspiration? You know, what are the tools you think that are making the biggest difference? Yeah.
52:19
So I'll answer that in two seconds. I was just gonna say when things like that happen in ATV, it makes me feel really good about myself as hunter that no matter how big you get, you know, managing people is is the world's hardest thing to do. Right. And so But yeah, I mean, it's for us, it's just constant reminders, right? We've got signs, it's verbal, it's, you know, so I still happen to run our sales team from a standpoint of, we went through enough managers that didn't work out. So I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna do this until we can get it going. And we're about 18 months in now. And then we'll hire a manager here probably in the next six months to a year. But we have a weekly phone call, because my team is remote. And we're throughout the state. We talk about safety every single week. And so it's it's something that we talk about to encourage people, like, Hey, I know as we get back to normal and things are picking up things, you know, still you need to be distancing yourself. When you're in an office with a doctor at lunch, when eight people come in for lunch or 10 people come in for lunch, you need to be very cognizant, like those people were in touch with people and right and it just spirals. We talk about that constantly. We've got protocols from where people, certain people aren't allowed in certain areas of our building. So our building is all barcode access. Anyway, a barcode but badge access. Yeah. But so you can't get in places you're not supposed to be in any way. from a standpoint of if you're in accounting, you can't go walk in our laboratory. no business being in there. doesn't mean you're not allowed to like get a tour or Hey, can you show me something but we just don't want people kind of aimlessly we deal with a ton of HIPAA, you know, protected health information, things like that. So that is helpful in and of itself, that people are only allowed to be in places they're allowed to be in. But yeah, I mean, it's constantly talking, you know, reiterating the fact of Hey, safety protocols, we need to be safe every time. I mean, I can tell you, one of my director of operations right now is out on quarantine. And I'm like, it sucks. So, now she's working remotely, but it's just for us. It's different. Remote, compared to you know, in the office.
Phil Walker 54:39
Yeah, that is a big factor. I mean, I had that sort of almost not quite a breakdown. So you know, what I do with my time and a lot of what I do is virtual, a lot of is remote, a lot of person and all the most of the leadership team development that I do teaching the executive teams to really get control of their business and have clear vision and driving. accountability and have the best healthy leadership team possible. And therefore the best healthy companies result. That work is tip classically done in person. Like I've traveled on them, they traveled to me. And so for the last six months, I keep adding the time that four months, three months, three years, three or four months, we've done it all virtually. And the first couple months are like, this is really great. This is fine. We don't need to even drive across town or or or fly and we got people in other states. And you know, what was the big deal about being in person anyway? Like this last week? I'm like, Just kill me. I must admit that I think it's probably a mixture of both and I think, but I'm struggling because I, I find myself isolated. And there's we haven't I don't think we've got full metrics. What, how to describe how to measure and counteract the effects. I think we have really high productivity and very efficient and a lot of efficiency in working from home is something we can do and we can send people home and they can be great. But there is a little bit of the blind spot that I don't think we fully got figured out about how to really keep ourselves socially healthy.
56:06
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like and you get almost compared to homeschool, right? Like homeschool work, you can be a Brian kid and be homeschool. It doesn't mean it's the best thing for you to do. Like, I'm not gonna homeschool my children, you know?
56:18
Well, that's a good homeschooling for people who understand and have a passion for homeschooling, I think is amazing. But in the average parent in the homeschool situation, that's not good. We know this
56:29
way. Now. Let's say that, again. we're witnessing that experiment right now. I think you're seeing that that's going to happen. But yeah, no, I'm a fan of I'm a fan of hybrid work. Again, as a business owner, I've had the luxury over the past. I mean, I have not been employed now for almost 10 years. Maybe not that long. But anyway, you know, you get to work on your terms, right? Which is a huge benefit of being an entrepreneur. But I'm a I'm a fan of both, like I don't want to work remotely 100% of the time I you know, I hate I hate that. But I also don't want to have to be in the office from nine to five, I think there's somewhere in the middle that achieves both, right? Yeah.
57:11
Yeah, we got a lot to figure out there. Because I like one out of 10 calls of people that I'm not that familiar with.
Phil Walker 57:18
And we go around and say something like, what do you learn? Like, I it's my favorite question, maybe what do you learn about yourself in the last 1012 weeks, one out of 10 people will say something like, I learned that I really don't like people that I was I was not just a hunch, like I'm actually feel better not having to socialize. And so that's that's a that's not an answer. To me. That's a question like, what are we gonna do with those people? And and are they right? Are they going to explode in a couple quarters through through loneliness and isolation that they haven't fully gotten their mind around? Because I think I think the science on on humanity is kind of in that we're social creatures. And and happiness and socialization are closely linked in. I guess I could believe that there are some people who that's an exception for one, but I would love to see data to prove it right now. I'm kind of skeptical.
58:07
Now. I'm in agreement there. Yeah. Well, cool, man. So it, anything else on your mind you want to share? I'm not particularly man.
Phil Walker 58:18
So I'll hit you with the last quote, The question that I love to end on is, you know, this group of people who listen to this are entrepreneurs or entrepreneurial leaders, whatever that means. Sometimes it's a member of the leadership team, people who are aspiring entrepreneurs, but people who want to take control of their life in some way and business might be part of that. So the question is, given what you know what you learn what you're feeling at this very moment, what is your passionate plea to entrepreneurs right now?
58:48
Oh, good luck. If you give like a five minute pause, I'll just edit it out so much minute plea. Really, gotcha. Yeah. I think
59:21
that's a good question. This is would have been the one that I wanted you to actually send me that beforehand. So I could give you this amazing answer. You know, we talked about scripted, right.
59:34
Life is not scripted. So that's what this is about. Now, this is like a good old campfire question right here.
59:41
So what did you when I said that question? Where did you Where do you in your mind, what did you start visualizing? Were there specific
59:47
people? Yeah. And so immediately, I went to kind of like how we treat people from a culture standpoint. But I can tell you, it's been a hardcore focus of mine. So here I think this will answer the question, it's been a hardcore focus of mine with the people that I work with directly. To try to focus more on we've culture is a big thing that I'm sure you deal with and that we deal with. And so I've tried to take a, a hardcore approach to work on people or work with people that I work directly with on our team to engage outside of work, not necessarily like go hang out outside outside of work, but to learn about, like, their hopes and dreams and who they are and help expand them as an individual, right. And so I think it's one our duty to do that, like outside of professional like, so it's like, Okay, well, hey, you're in accounting, I really care. Like, yes, you need to be great at accounting. That's why we hired you. But from a standpoint of like, What are you trying to get out of life. And though some of these bigger ideas that I feel like I've been able to or not that I've been able to that I still try to learn. And then I'm kind of chasing daily, which is like, how to live a fulfilled life, how to be, how to have a good family, how to deal with finances, and things like that. And I've tried to make that a more of a point. And it really came from this book, I think, actually, Cameron Herald recommended it was about the dream manager. And so I've tried to really take that in and grow on that from a standpoint of like, it talks about how like, people have dreams, but a lot of people forget about their dreams, once they kind of turn 18 or turn 25, or whatever, you know. And so my passionate plea, I think, would be like, to really realize that like, people will like bend over backwards for you when and really just thank you, like you're giving them you're sharing a gift of like, hey, like, you should still have dreams. And hey, you can do things that you want to do. And in some people just either haven't been exposed, like, I feel like I've been pretty fortunate to be exposed to so many different things. And so to try to take some of these ideas that I've been exposed to, and then share those with, you know, my team in hopes that they would then share them with their team, right? And it kind of trickles down and you create this. Ultimately, this will call it a culture but where it's like, more about progress and things like that, as opposed to like ping pong tables and stuff like that, you know?
1:02:19
There's a lot in there, man, you really I think you went deep on that. And I appreciate that. But no, that's good. That's, that's a that's a compliment, because I know I kind of threw it through threw that in you on Yeah, and you're like, man, let's do it to me.
Phil Walker 1:02:35
It's, but you answered it fantastically. Because it bridges the world of the vision of the visionary, who oftentimes has done the opposite. like they've actually checked off all the dreams they had in high school, and have to reinvent their own dreams in their own image, which is a whole other issue, but where I see people kind of borrowing people's goals, and like, Hey, you know, I need you know, I've been I've got the car, got the house got the wife, I want to be this. Well, why? Well, because my friend has that. And I want that to like, Well, does that actually matter to you? Well, not really. So when you get to that, and then the flip side, it can be people who, who've been squished by the routine of their life, and had to be in a situation long enough where maybe they did the carpets worn down, the carpets worn down for them. And what can you do to share in that dream, you can give them a little bit of your vision. And when you do that, when I see that happen, what that often most often looks like is a pride of culture. That is unique, that culture is unique. Your culture is not the same as someone else's, I'm sure that your your organizational culture has unique descriptors that will be different than many of the companies I work with. And when you can describe and talk about what we do here and who we are. There becomes a sense of community. And when you have that sense of community, you can say with some degree of safety, what what are your dreams and and asking that question can be quite illuminating. And it can create a great sense of bond and power and impact. And meaning for the leader is well as the person who's sort of been inspired by that. Jeff Hoffman did a fantastic job of describing that on his in his with his talk last year. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah. So it was great. And he was on the podcast a couple months later, and really talked a lot about what many of the stories that were just life changing. examples of how his employees, his staff, went to bat for him, he went to bat for them, and they created this really bonded culture. And the point that I tried to draw out of that was that that was not accidental work, or accidental outcomes. That was decades of laying the groundwork of choosing to make they have he has a specific choice to make human decisions over business decisions and that, that you don't do that once and get that result. You do that 1000 times over 10 years. And then you get the results from that. So I will add to what your point though that, that it is that's a choice for your life for your fights and it is not something on a Saturday afternoon, I'm going to ask three people what they want to dream what their dreams are. And back to work Monday. That isn't it. So, to paraphrase what you said, to really reach to the to the humanity of your team, and and make that an on and on build that into an ongoing part of your leadership every single day. Yep. Well, Chris, I really appreciate the time, the insight, the perspective has been helpful to me, which means there's a very high percentage chance that is meaningful to somebody else who's listening to this. But I really appreciate it particularly your perspective on health care and testing and what you're what you're doing it it makes me feel a little more plugged into something real as opposed to like lots of stats on the news. And you know, that's it for today. So if somebody wants to find out about you what's going on in your world, is there a website or is there you know, LinkedIn? Or how do people find you in the world?
1:06:08
Yeah, you can. I'm on LinkedIn, Chris light. Our website is principal spelled pri ncip. l e h s isn't Sam calm. So principal, HS calm. And if anybody wanted to email me, it'd be c li ght at principal, Principal, HS calm. But yeah, I really appreciate you having me enjoyed the conversation. And frankly, only guest I now know you have had I do not feel worthy to be here right. Now, man. It's awesome. Awesome, awesome. Something in there for someone?
Phil Walker 1:06:41
No, I sorry. Normally, I would just got to go right to the wrap. But I think that it's a point. So I really wrestled with the content on these conversations, I get people with names that people recognize. And sometimes it's sort of like their show. And that's fine. And that people love the content. I've got really good feedback on those other times I get real transformation in people who you wouldn't know. And because we aren't on a platform, and we are talking about our real life experiences. And I find sometimes the wisdom is is deeper there. And, and more illuminating because it's it comes from a little bit raw perspective, as opposed to, you know, this is the topic of my book. It's like, I got the book. I read the book, I heard that. And so it's been really helpful, and I appreciate it, and I think it's gonna be valuable to listeners. So that's it for today. Please subscribe, share with your friends who can use this information and please leave feedback. We want it we need it and it really does make a difference. We'll see you next time on you're doing it wrong with me. Mark Anderson.
VO 1:07:50
This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson Leary for more episodes and to subscribe. Go to liren.c