Jim Roddy is a renowned keynote speaker, podcast host, moderator, business coach, and consultant. He works with high-initiative, growth-oriented companies to help them uncover their blind spots with customers, employees, and business best practices, applying his 25+ years of business management experience, executive leadership, and industry expertise to help them get better. Jim also passes on his know-how by authoring business books like “Hire Like You Just Beat Cancer” and “The Walk-On Method to Career Business & Success”.
We are no strangers to hearing success stories and are often whisked away by the end result of empires being built or an impressive goal being reached. The common thread to these success stories, however, is the hard work put in. Most of these even take years and years of iterations and failings before hitting significant milestones. Jim Roddy joins me on the show today to talk more about the ingredients to success through the “Walk-on Method” and persevering with grit and commitment.
1:58 Ordinary people will accomplish extraordinary things when their energy is channeled.
3:18 Take the big shot.
6:38 A lot of times people dream but they don’t put in the work over and over and over.
18:07 If you find yourself in a difficult situation, throw yourself into it anyway.
27:00 How are you gonna react to people booing you or shaking their heads at you?
34:55 Every great endeavor needs perseverance.
45:00 Don’t cry about your situation, maximize your unique strengths.
50:30 Try, test, measure, and adapt
1:03:25 Jim’s passionate plea for entrepreneurs
“Teach your team and invest in your people.”
GET IN TOUCH:
MARK LEARY:
www.linkedin.com/in/markhleary
www.leary.cc
JIM RODDY:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimroddy1/
http://www.jimroddycba.com/
Production credit:
Engineering / Post-Production: Jim McCarthy
Art / Design: Immanuel Ahiable
July 21, 2021, Wednesday
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, walk ons, walk, book, team, business, game, athlete, coach, work, play, run, career, step, obstacle, outwork, actions, stories, journey, basketball
SPEAKERS
Jim Roddy, VO, Mark
Mark 00:00
So we're rolling, cool. We are live. This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson, Leary and my name is Mark, and I have a passion. Do you know by now that you should feel in control of your life. And so what I'm doing is I'm doing my best to help you get control of your business, and live that better life. Part of how I do that, of course, is by letting you listen in on these conversations that where we dig into those subjects you know a little bit about, but we dig in deeper and geek out on some of this so we can really pull it apart. So you can unlock those secrets and break through that ceiling and get what you want from that business, which leads to that amazing life. Today, I am joined by Jim Roddy, who is a fantastic business leader, author, tons of books, leadership coach passionate about this subject. And he's going to tell us about the walk on method for what for career and business both of those together his latest book. How are you, Jim?
Jim Roddy 00:52
I'm tremendous. Mark. Thanks for having me here. happy to talk with you today.
00:56
So what is the walk on method? Tell me about that? Sure. So
Jim Roddy 01:01
the walk on method is a book that I published in late 2020. And it features 31 underdog athletes. And so first, I have to define what a walk on is. So that's a non scholarship athlete on a college team where like everybody else has a scholarship, right? They have the meal plan, they get their books paid for their school paid for the walk on doesn't get any of that not only do they not have a scholarship, right, they have to scramble to make the team scramble to stay on the team, they get no playing time no uniform oftentime that's that's a path that they go down. So I tracked down 30 underdog athletes, these former walk ons to see if that experience that they had as a walk on athlete, if that attitude they developed, how do they apply that to their to their career. And so that's the gist of the book is they became wildly successful. And so what we said is ordinary people, even underdogs, and maybe especially underdogs, ordinary people will accomplish extraordinary feats, when their energy is properly channeled. So the way that these walk ons behave now is second nature because they were forced to behave that way to survive as a walk on. So it has like a sports theme running to it. But even if you're not a sports fan, it has all sorts of lessons and things that you can do in terms of your daily life, your work life, your personal life, what attitude Can you adopt? What behaviors can you start to exhibit, they're going to lead to career and business success.
Mark 02:23
So that's awesome. So I use a lot of sports analogies when I'm working with my teams. And, you know, I, you know, I kind of feel guilty because, you know, I judged the method a little bit, because so many of these books and methods that, you know, they all kind of start to sound gimmicky, but I'm like, yeah, that's actually pretty compelling. You know, this idea of what a walk on is and thinking of I tell some stories about that. I mean, like Kurt Warner, I don't know if you'd put him in the in the mix. But the, that's it's a tough road and into the real parallel to a lot of entrepreneurs stories, on many entrepreneurs, some entrepreneurs kind of have a path to it, that led from their professional background, they have an MBA, they work for a company, there was an opportunity started off, but majority of the entrepreneurs I work work with, were given no particular opportunity. In fact, they might have been in some way kicked out of another opportunity that left him. So we're like, well, I guess I got a scrap metal is something that works here.
Jim Roddy 03:13
Yeah. Yeah, I've always since I've, I've been an entrepreneur. And I always say an entrepreneur is just somebody who's unemployed. But I've got an idea, right. And they're actually working all the time to make that better and better. I know, we're going to dive into in a little bit, the actual five steps of the walk on method, but a big you know, the first step is really huge one in ties with entrepreneurs. It's take a big shot too many times people say, I'm gonna take the easy, common, less stressful, maybe lower upside, path, but that's safer for me. And that's what walk ons do is they say, I'm going to try for the University of Virginia men's basketball team. And everybody's like, what are you crazy, like, you have no business doing that. But like, I'm going to take a chance I'm going to do whatever it takes to become resourceful in order to get the goal that I want. And that's, again, we enter a lot of entrepreneurs are featured in the book as well. And I think that's no accident, a lot of the same principles apply to entrepreneurship or try apply to business and apply to walk onto college athletics team.
Mark 04:14
So two things pop out for me right now. One is the commitment that I hear in those rookies story, like, you know, how they made it through the draft how they got to be somewhere. I know we're talking about walk ons, but anybody in the process, who may be transferred schools or went to everybody in the NFL, had a hard journey. And they all say something like, this is my thing. And I didn't care about the naysayers and I didn't. I was all in from the get go. I knew my destiny was greatness and I wasn't going to give up on that which is interesting to me because it could sound a lot like foolish pride and ignorance of the reality of the world. especially knowing the stats on what success looks like, you know, many professional athletes tell the college students like, by the way, when you're at Notre Dame use, you know, get educated. Right? Right. That's statistically your asset leaving Notre Dame is not being in the NFL, it is actually having an education that will get you an actual job. So, so going back to the those committed, committed, rookies are like, this is my thing. I'm all in for this thing. Combined with this other concept, which is people who continually say, everybody doubted me, I'm used to people not expecting much from me. And I continue to crush those doubts in those in those things. So how, how much of a factor that is two very related concepts fit into success in that picture.
Jim Roddy 05:51
Yeah, and I'd say that they're tied together. So to me, there's a combination in new and then I'm sure have bumped into a lot of people, they're like, I'm going to be a movie star, I'm going to be a whatever, like fill in the blank. But then they just are crossing their fingers and hoping and wishing that some, you know, man is going to come down from heaven, or someone is going to find them right. And they're going to be discovered. But one thing that we found with the walk ons is, they all realize, you have to put in the work. It is not enough just to say this is what I'd really like to do, I hope that it's going to happen. And so we talked about not just having a passion, and not just playing with passion, but preparing and practicing with passion. That's what I think really separated these walk ons from other dreamers A lot of times people dream, but they don't want to put in the work. These walk ons put in the work over and over and over and they didn't get the immediate adulation, sometimes they got almost no adulation whatsoever, but they were putting in investing in themselves in the long term, but they were the ones who spent the extra time in the weight room, in the summer, on the track, sometimes in the classroom, depending on what their different hurdles were. And those were the behaviors that have now translated into career and business success. It was harder for them if they were, you know, like me, a five foot 10 145 pound walk on trying to play basketball against guys who are 6869 610, once you get into the professional world, it doesn't matter if that other person is a foot taller than you or 75 pounds. Heavier, right? But it's those traits the build up. So I agree with you, it's that really saying I'm going to go do this. But it's actually putting in the work one of my favorite quotes, I'm not sure who the sources but it's the will to win means nothing without the will to prepare. So if you put in the work, you're going to give yourself a chance to win. So what's
Mark 07:37
the relationship between talent and hard work?
Jim Roddy 07:42
Well, I mean, there's actually no relation, you know, the there's a lot of talented derelicts, you know, who aren't accomplishing anything. And then there are some people who were just super, super hard workers, but like myself, I was a very, very hard worker basketball. But you know, I couldn't dunk the volleyball once right, I was not going to go to the NBA, you know, with my lack of athletic ability. So they're disconnected in many ways. But the thing is, you know, especially in the professional world, there are things that you can learn, there are skills that you can build, and you can develop, and you can overcome some natural talent that somebody else might have, and really start passing them by and actually some of our walk on Ted, those stories as well. A great example is Brian stay blind. He walked on, nobody else wanted him. But he ended up walking on to the Ohio State football team, because his older brother was a quarterback there and just kind of convinced the coach like give my brother a shot. And so he was a wide receiver kick returner way, way down on the depth chart with all these other all American guys who are a lot stronger, a lot faster than him. But he just said I'm gonna outwork everybody guys would kind of be like, I don't want to do a rep. He's like, I'm gonna take your rep and they call him a try hard and make fun of them. And you're a brown noser. And he said, I don't care. I'm going to take every single rep, I'm going to do all the extra reps. Long story short, he ends up having a solid career at Ohio State ends up making it into the NFL and outworks everybody there and ends up playing for seven years. And now he's successful in the banking industry, right. And so he was a guy who probably looked around and said, I'm not the strongest, I'm not the fastest he could jump. That was one thing that he had from somebody had a lot of things working against him from a lack of natural talent standpoint. But he had just enough talent. And that incredible work ethic then made him surpass the other people who might have had more natural ability.
Mark 09:31
So in the book, do you track people's success through professional careers, his athletes or wherever they land lined up?
Jim Roddy 09:40
It was wherever they end up. Yeah, so Brian's an example of somebody who ended up making it to the NFL and we have, I think a handful of folks maybe Gosh, if we featured 31, maybe three or four of them actually ended up doing something from a professional athletics standpoint, a few of them played football one became a professional triathlete. And she was He was a rower, but most of them it's just you know, athletics are in the rearview mirror. It was really just their springboard in order to do that. And so that was the whole thing. These are, you know, like Brian stayed by my guess is you hadn't heard of him before. You're either diehard Ohio State guy or Indianapolis culture Detroit Lions fan that you'd like knew who Brian stay blind was. But all these other people from the book are folks no one has probably ever heard of before except for their family, or friends. And so it was what did they learn from that athletic experience, and that walk on experience, that then helped them go on to be a pastor, a doctor, a business owner, a professional speaker, an engineer, right, all sorts of different things, it was every single different line of work. But it was that same fundamental of those five steps of the walk on method.
Mark 10:48
So I think the, you're kind of pointing out the talents, part of the equation, in its in the commitment to work is part of the equation and to be ultimately successful in the pinnacle of career, you've got to have both, you really have to be able to develop and commit and progress. And you have to have all the raw materials. If you're missing either of those. You have to be an exceeding exception to be a very short successful NBA, NBA, NBA basketball player, which there are what three or four very noteworthy, very, very short, exceedingly successful, successful. And so statistically, they actually don't exist. They statistically they don't exist. There's two or three of them. We all know their names, many of them. So you had to have both, but there's a there's a journey for everybody that that takes turns. And being the very best athlete in the world is not the only measure of success. There's a lot of journeys, but where does it start? Where does it start to get people on a path? It What did you encounter any common elements of people learning to work hard or beyond that journey early?
Jim Roddy 11:55
Sure. And so like the stereotypical walk on is people think of the movie Rudy right, Rudy ruettiger. And he just wanted to play for Notre Dame, and he was just work, work, work and commitment and things like that. But some people are more wired that way. But not everybody is. And so you know, one of the examples that we have in the book is Dr. Dave Martin, and so I kind of split it there by calling him Dr. Dave Martin. So he went to Cal State Chico, and he was a track athlete, but he was not this industrious, high commitment guy. He says he showed up in school, because he didn't have a place to live anymore. And he chose Cal State Chico, because it was close and had a party school reputation, right. He was just kind of like floating around floating along. But he ran track in high school, and he was bored. And so he like literally walked onto the track and walked up to the coach and said, can I run for the team and the coaches like, well, you can try. And so the coach is a guy named Larry burlison, who is actually a former Green Bay Packer, under Vince Lombardi. And so Dave describes him as like a combination of mean and grumpy and old even though he wasn't very old, but he forced Dave to make that commitment. And so Dave never had anybody pushing him like that. And so he said, You know what, maybe I should try my best for once, maybe I should start sleeping, maybe I should start eating right, maybe I should start sacrificing. And then guess what he started doing very well as, as an athlete. He was a three time division to all Americans sets and school records, as well. But then he also said, why should apply this to school? So he was an exercise science major, push himself academically and said, How about I become a doctor. And that's what he did. He said, he never really thought of himself as Doctor material. But he said, I was going to outwork people, I'm going to stay up longer than other people, he had that skill have that habit built up already, I'm going to overcome somebody else's talent or genius, just by out working them. And now he owns a Medical Center for Advanced gynecology in Tennessee, is an associate professor at East Tennessee State. And he's also a pioneer in a few different biomedical fields that I can't exactly understand. But again, that was a guy who was your stereotypical, I'm going to join the frat and sit on the porch and drink all day as I can. He had somebody helped push him to do that. And so to me, that's just a great example of it's not well, I wasn't born with that level of commitment. Not everybody is and Dave Barnes a great example. Again, he's now Dr. Dave Martin.
Mark 14:16
So I think that a huge thing that runs through a lot of these podcasts is the importance of purpose. And how maddeningly difficult can be to find it. And that purpose is something that that draws you into what's the reason for some form of sacrifice and what what unifies the efforts, hopefully, ultimately on a team in the company and the organization you're creating and leading. So it sounds like in that case, there is has to be some sense of purpose and you either have encountered it through circumstances in your home and family life or you stumbled across it in a mentorship situation. Is that fair enough that those are probably the most common sources of those purpose.
Jim Roddy 14:56
I'd say that's that's fair, where some people are just naturally high initiative growth oriented and then other people find themselves in a situation that really motivates them to do that, whether it's a person or something like that, I can't remember the name of the actor, but I never watched a Tony Awards. But this is the only one and he won a Tony Award. And he said, my parents gave us from Italy. Roberto Bernini, maybe was his name. And he said, You know, my parents gave me the best gift, poverty, right. And so he had nothing easy whatsoever. And so everything he had to do is overcome, overcome, overcome. And so I guess I can tie like the first two steps of the walk on method together, take a big shot, right, Don't sell yourself short, when you're setting your next goal, really Dream Big for something that you really want. And then step two is make a passion statement. So passion with a P. And that's prepare, practice, and then play with passion. Once you find that dream you have, and then something that you're passionate about, then you got to put your, you know, your passion statement into all that different work that you're going to do. But it starts with that, just like you said, it's not just like, Oh, I could do a variety of different things, you're not going to be driven to really go after anything, if you really don't care about it, or learn to care about it.
Mark 16:08
So I want to ask a question. And then I want to go into the method. And maybe it'll chip all together. So when I see exceedingly successful examples that make the movies, and in sports and anywhere, it's a common theme that is that this amazingly wealthy life, world life and world changing leader, performer, athlete had it really, really tough. And my assessment of that is that when you come from nothing, you have nothing to lose. And so you can bet big on things. And you can sacrifice hard because you're not giving up, you know, I don't want you I can't give up the easy life if you don't have the easy life. And so your will your ability to sacrifice and do hard things, it's really, really high. Because everything is hard, it doesn't it's not harder to do a lot of hard work than it is to survive, you know, a drug dealer infested neighborhood with no, you know, parents that are helping you that's, that's as hard as it gets. And so the ability to compete with somebody who's living a some somewhat easy life is really easy. And so I like that as a great beacon for people who have it hard. But it doesn't help people who didn't have that. So there are people who were come from a middle class, moderate life, and they're like, I want to make a difference. I too want to sacrifice. And so I want to know what every you know, at every turn of this, how do you contrast somebody who came from nothing, you know, I worked with a guy come from Nigeria, you know, he knows how to work, I'm not gonna outwork that guy, I got another guy, friend of mine entrepreneur from Greece, he's like, you know, I've been homeless for, you know, weeks and months on the like, you're not gonna outwork me, you're not gonna sacrifice me, like, I'm not gonna dry. When there's a whole other group of people who are like, I want to make a difference, too. And I'm not comfortable, you know, trying to compete with a guy who's willing to start his business without a home, which is a whole other level of gain. So kind of with that, in the backdrop, I want to be able to apply this to both paradigms, walk us through the method methodology. Sure,
Jim Roddy 18:06
I guess before we get to the methodology, just to to address your point. To me, there's three different zones, there's your comfort zone in the middle, the next outer layer is the courage zone. And then outside of that is the panic zone. And so going from your comfort zone, your panic zone, like, no one's gonna, you know, perform well, they are like, you don't just get pushed out of a plane, like good luck with the parachute. Right? You know, that's the absolute panic zone for somebody, but I will say, for most of the walk ons that we feature in the book here, they didn't come from some, I have absolutely nothing, you know, they could have taken the very much easier path of playing intramurals or getting involved in something else. But they all consciously said, I'm going to do something that is in that courage zone that might be borderline on that panic zone. So we all have the choices in our life to go do something else that might be harder, might be more difficult, right? Yeah, you might not, you know, and it's not that you have to put everything on the line, like I'm gonna bet my house on this because somebody else doesn't have those other resources. But most of these folks, they did have good resources. They don't have a lot of those, you know, deep family stories to come from, because part of it was they didn't have a scholarship to attend college. Right. And so they had to have some money in order to in order to do that. So that's, I guess, one, I guess a little difference there is these folks found what was a difficult situation, and instead of avoiding it, they threw themselves into it, if that makes sense.
Mark 19:30
Makes sense. That's super helpful. So talk us through the model. You've touched on a couple of the steps of the process. Give us the give us the clear, tangible view of how this works.
Jim Roddy 19:42
Sure. So sits a five step method. They all really tied together. Like I said, step one is take a big shot. Don't contemplate what you really want and aim for something less just to play it safe because anybody can do that. A great example of that is calling Haley. She's from willimantic, Connecticut. She actually got us scholarship to play basketball division to New Haven. She was from a middle class family was the first one to attend college. And so she just said attending, you know, New Haven was more of a default than an actual decision. And so she wasn't very strong academically. But athletically. She was talented and started a lot as a freshman was leading your team in minutes second, and points. But after one game, she said, You know what, I can just do better. Like I don't know why I settled for this. So she packed up all her belongings into her car, drove home through Blizzard, the car caught on fire on the highway. So she just pulled off to the side, she hitchhiked to get closer to home. And then she called her parents and said, Hey, just you know, I gave up my scholarship. I've dropped out of school on by the way, the cars on fire and so I need you to pick me up and bring me home. Right? And so she threw herself into a situation out of that comfort zone into something that was really difficult. And when she got home, her parents are like, Why would you do this? Right? Like, we don't have the money to get you to go to college like this is going to be difficult and she said, I don't want to be 30 years old and wonder if I was good enough to play at UConn the University of Connecticut. So what she did was and this is again, getting back to putting in the work. She didn't just say hope to play at UConn, she went and became a counselor for their summer basketball camp got to know the head coach Geno Auriemma, called him up on the rotary phone and said, I would like to play for your team. And he said, Well, you're gonna have to sit out a year because you're transferring. And so you're gonna have to be a manager. And then the best I can offer you is a tryout like no guarantees whatsoever. So she goes from a scholarship athlete playing a whole bunch to sweeping floors, filling water bottles being the first one there to turn on the light. So from an athletic standpoint, she made the team she worked on her defense and hustle rededicated itself in the classroom, and became a key player for them for three years. But after graduation, she went moved south to to pursue a career in medical sales. Again, she never thought she'd even leave the state of Connecticut. So she not only had a good sales career, she had a great sales career, she moved into two senior positions and multi billion dollar companies. But then again, she always wanted to take a bigger shot, she left the medical field to become a consultant, and co founder leadership organization. Today, she speaks to corporations and student athletes throughout the United States. And she always tells them, you never know when your day is gonna come. And you've got to make your own break. So that's step number one. Take a big shot. You want me to keep going on with step two, or any questions on that, as well.
Mark 22:23
So yeah, there's one last thing I want to dig into that. So she sounded crazy, right? Like, she's sure she bounces out of there. So what's the difference between lucky and crazy and somebody who's really clearly in or guided with some sense of truth that that it can be, be done?
Jim Roddy 22:40
Sure. There's always there's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, right, like charge, you know, into a war like, yep, could be absolutely crazy to do that. But she went in and said, I'm going to take this shot. And I'm going to figure out a way in order to do it. Like you talked earlier about the talent and the work ethic standpoint. She had some talent, right, obviously, to get a scholarship at a division to school, but she realized she needed to get special, and her work ethic both in the classroom, and both from a basketball standpoint, as well. And so she decided she was going to go for but she did all the steps she needed to, in order to actually achieve that dream. And it no longer became a dream. It was just a goal that she ended up really working our way towards step by step, day by day, minute by minute defensive possession by defensive possession and practice.
Mark 23:29
Yeah, so I think the takeaway for me on that is that this is an individual decision, really deeply, personally individual that you have to listen to your inner voice. Because when you look and sound crazy, you're not going to get support from very many people, he might even get contradiction and resistance from the people who are most important and most potentially helpful to your journey. And so you're going to be up against your biggest obstacle sometimes in your family, friends and partners in that. And so you have to look inward in a very solitary way. Like, what am I What am I doing here?
Jim Roddy 24:03
Amen. I'll just tell a quick personal story about myself. So I went to a really, really tiny school for high school. It was a kindergarten through 12th grade. I graduated third in my class, but I was not in the top 10%. So if you do the math, we only had 15 kids in our school, really, really tiny school. And so I walked on at a local college here, Ghana University of our division two basketball powerhouse, like I mentioned earlier, I mean, they had, they recruited a whole bunch of guys who are like ex army ex military, late 20s. I mean, it was men versus boys. And so I said, like, I'm gonna try out for the Ghana basketball team. We had one kid in his school who went to both my high school games and also went to the college games. He was a third grader, him and his dad would also go to the Ganon games. He found out I was going to try it for the Ganon team. And so as a senior we would sell senior lunches to the elementary school kids and this kid comes up, his name's Joey. And he says, I told my dad, you're going to trap for the Gannett team. I said, Oh, yeah. And he said, Yeah, he said, you're not good enough. And I'm like, What? Like, I got this third grader telling me like, yeah, it's not gonna happen. And I can tell you I can remember one of the first games we were warming up for it. It was like actually pre warm ups. And Joey comes down and says hi to him, like, hey, Joey, and then I'm immediate, like, Where's your dad? Where's your dad? Like, I want to go over and say hi, like, I told you like I was going to do it. So you will get voices? Big and small, right? Like from the mouths of babes telling you? No, I don't think so. And so, again, you've got to run it through the filter of what do I have to do in order to make it work? Their words can encourage you their words could discourage you, but it's you actually putting in the work to achieve the dream that you want?
Mark 25:37
Yeah. And did that fuel you when you heard that you do like, I'm gonna try it even. I'm gonna at least one more rep with that dude's dead.
Jim Roddy 25:46
100% 100%. And that's, you know, a lot of the stories that we have in the book, like, there's Megan Lightfoot, she went to walk onto the rowing team at UCLA. And so she had never rode before. But she thought I'd like to try this sport, you know, an Olympic sport in college and the assistant coach said, like, you can try out, you're probably not going to make it, you're probably going to quit, like, that's just what goes on here. So she had two choices walking out of that room. He's probably Right, right. That's a reason I probably shouldn't do this, I should go look to do something else. But she walked out and said, I'll show him. Well, sure enough, she makes the Team A year later, she's one year in and she's talking to that coach again. And he said, you can come back if you want to or not, I mean, doesn't matter to me. And so again, she had another opportunity to say, screw this. But she walked out of there and said, I'll show him. So sure enough, again, she and I are cut from the same cloth. As a senior one she got done and actually got a partial scholarship. The coach actually came to her and was like, Yeah, I remember telling you, you weren't gonna make it. But boy, you proved me wrong. And now she's a successful attorney. And when she applied for jobs, she was like one of the youngest people to apply for a job at a law firm. And they were like, I don't know. And she said, I'll show you right. So that is definitely a conscious choice that you make of how are you going to react to people booing you, or ignoring you or shaking their head, right? You're going to go back and have that attitude and then go put in the work, are you just going to use that as an excuse to not get what you came for.
Mark 27:10
So here's a curiosity. In the process, it's in retrospect in the history sounds very linear, like this is step one, step two, and there was resistance to step two, and it was forced my way to step three, forced my way to step four, take step back to step three and solve very linear sounding. But somewhere in this process, I'm sure there's people who are like, you know what, this isn't my sport. They might be right. Like, I'm not gonna do this, I'm gonna do something else that might be that Do you have any examples of people making different choices to still like, actually level up? They're like, my talent, you know, I could prove them wrong. That'd be, that'd be silly. I actually am better over here, and I'm gonna go prove them wrong.
Jim Roddy 27:48
Yes, so I'd say in a way, yes, though, I would say a lot of these folks that we talked to, did just continue to fight through every obstacle that they ran into, until they really get what they, you know, got what they came for. But I will tell you an example. So Bernie floriani, he actually had a partial golf scholarship at the University of Virginia, right. So he was from Delaware was good at golf especially, and that also really loved basketball, but his golf game was going sideways. And it was really struggling to correct and actually wasn't even enjoying golf in college. And then he found out that UVA, I don't think they do anymore. But they had a JV basketball team that played other JV schools. And he was like, Oh my gosh, like I actually get to play on the main floor and get to go to travel to North Carolina, like, it is unbelievable. Well, so he's playing on the JV team and having some success there. And the head coaches, you know, from the varsity team would watch and they're like, we need a backup point guard for practice. And they asked Bernie to be on the team, like, will you be on the team? He's like, what, like, are you kidding me that I can actually suit up for the games? And they're like, yeah, you're gonna sit up no name on your uniform, you know, no playing time. Nothing of that nature. So he went in, took his best better ability actually wasn't golf, but he took that passion, his love for basketball, and just threw himself into that now, did he ever become a great athlete, you know, all time something or other on the University at University of Virginia for basketball? No, I mean, the one claim to fame he has his he had four attempted shots his entire career, and he made all four right and so good for him. Like he never missed a shot. Very few people can say that, but the fact he only had four shots over, you know,
Mark 29:24
it's actually I give it I give real credit for that. And those are high pressure shots, take for it, he got 100% I can count on that guy.
Jim Roddy 29:30
My sophomore year, I made a shot the first game of the season never got a chance to shoot the rest of the year. So I always tell people, I lead the country and field goal percentage in what would have been 1989 99. But what Bernie did was and so he ended up going and becoming again, he has that what's my passion? What can I do, he really learned how to become a good team player and how to form teams. So he ended up opening up his own insurance agency and building up great customer service through that, a great team through that and built up a very successful organization, right? And so he learned how to pivot from one thing that wasn't going well to something else. So again, I'm not sure if that's the exact example that what you were looking for. But he was able to apply the principles to something else, and it ended up liking it a lot better.
Mark 30:16
Awesome. Yeah. Sounds great. Next step, man.
Jim Roddy 30:18
All right. So step one was take a big shot. Step two, make a passion statement. We already talked about that. Prepare, practice and play with passion. My example for that was Dave Martin. The next one. And I think we've touched upon this a few times. Step three is called run uphill, right? And so we're taught to avoid obstacles and seek the path of least resistance, right? Like, when there's an obstacle, it's like, ooh, shrink, close, your eyes get apprehensive, things are, are going to get difficult. So we're run uphill comes from was I was I ran a lot of road races and cross country when I was younger. And when people would get to a hill, they would slow down. And I don't know where I got it in my head. But I was like, What if instead of slowing down and trudging up a hill, what if I sprinted up the hill? What if I saw this as an opportunity just like, start going crazy, as much as I can. So there's one thing about passing people in a running race on a flat surface, when you pass them on a hill, it is so demoralizing, because they're like, how can this person even have the ability or the mindset to do this. And so these walk ons don't avoid obstacles, they lean in the difficulties of the situation, and embrace obstacles, all these folks were playing division one or division two schools, they could have gone to a smaller college, right, a smaller D one or smaller D two, or a d3 or NaVi are intramurals, right. But they said, I know this is going to take longer for me, but this is going to make me stronger. On the other side of it. And a great example that we have in the book of that is Todd Swoboda. And so he went to what was then Division Two, Northern Kentucky on an athletic scholarship, he was a great basketball player, he was also all conference in tennis, six foot eight, going into his senior year, he was literally going to be the big man on campus. But he had two paths that he could choose, right, he could stay and have all those athletic accolades at Northern Kentucky, or he was part of an engineering program three years at mku, two years at the University of Kentucky, a much harder program. But he said, I'm gonna go do that. And at the same time, I'm gonna go try out for the University of Kentucky basketball team, right, which is like the epitome of college basketball. So he goes from Mr. Playing every single minute, in order to like, Can I be on the team? And they're like, well, you have to come to the summer workouts. And maybe we'll have you on the team. And actually, when they took team pictures early, you know, in the preseason, they had him in some of their like, Alright, Todd, we don't if you're on the team, you get out of this one seat stand off to the side or watch, I'm taking a team photo without him in it. Now, you talked about the lack of encouragement as well. So he's with all these chemical engineering majors. And they're like, oh, like, what are you going to do here at the school? He's like, I'm going to play basketball. They're like, we can't keep up with classes by going to every class, you're going to be missing classes. And then on the basketball court, who does he have to go nose to nose with Jamal mashburn, who was like, all American and of being an all NBA kind of guy. And so Todd looked around and said, I may not be the most talented here, but I can outwork everybody else, I can push him to get better, I can push everybody to get better. And so when he was told to he made the team, it was actually the message from Rick Pitino. You're welcome to be on our team. But let me make it clear, Todd, you're not gonna play. Right. So he had those new choices. And he said, there was no doubt in my mind which choice I was going to make. And so he became a fan favorite because of his enthusiasm on the bench. Right? He had a different role that he could play. And so he took that attitude of right like the team first the different roles, what play Can I make, he ended up going to Lexmark for 18 years, and being like North American consultant of the year, made their achievers club actually received a patent. Right. And so then he ended up shifting to become a senior engineer at the East Kentucky power cooperative. And he's always looking for how can I get better? How can I learn from other people, so he is still running uphill, even many, many years later, that guy had the easiest path that somebody could have taken. And nobody would have blamed them for staying in Northern Kentucky one more year setting all sorts of school records, he took the harder road, not but as an athlete, and then also from an academic standpoint, and from a professional standpoint, he's thrilled that he did it.
Mark 34:18
So is there a self awareness that I mean, because that sounds like a recipe for for many people to be over committed? And how does one know the difference? It's different between just running uphill to create more endurance and respond better, and really just biting off too much?
Jim Roddy 34:35
Sure. Now, that's a good question. And so everybody has to make their own kind of personal decisions, obviously, in terms of how much can you handle but oftentimes, we can handle far more than we think that we can. So just because you get that initial, this is hard. This isn't feeling good doesn't mean that that's the like, I have to tap out right? Every great endeavor has a perseverance state. So you have to continue figuring how can I do this? How can I work harder? but also how can I do this better? How can I do this smarter, right? And so you have to be able to figure out what works for you like my own personal story. So, again, I was going to Ghana and like taking a full load of classes, walking onto the basketball team, I knew I wanted to get into writing and communication. So I was on the student newspaper, and then an opportunity came up for a pro basketball team that moved into town. And so I became the public relations intern, then the public relations assistant. And then my senior year, I was going to school playing basketball, and I was a full time Public Relations Director for the Erie wave, professional basketball team, and somebody would be like, Are you nuts? Like, are you crazy in order to do that, but I had these things that I wanted to do. And I just figured out how could I do those things? And what did I cut out? I didn't go to parties, right? I wasn't doing all the drinking. I wasn't doing all those other social things. And that was my choice, right? Because could I've taken on fourth thing? No. Could I have done all the partying and all that kind of stuff? No, that wasn't what I could do. But I was able to figure out what things that I want to do. How could I compartmentalize those? And how can I be successful in all three, but you have to constantly monitor those, and have somebody else help you from the outside in order to say, am I excelling in all of these? Am I meeting the standard everything that I do? Or am I just doing halfway and seven? seven different things?
Mark 36:20
So the sacrifice piece of that, which is the social hangout? Was that hard sacrifice for you? Or was it just not interesting?
Jim Roddy 36:27
I good question. I had no real desire to go do those things. There's a kid who actually I coached I remember him years, you know, he said, when he was a young kid, he'd be out working in his driveway. And his parents would be like, why are you working so hard? And he's like, I have plans. Right? He was 12 years old. He's like, I have plans. And that's how I always felt as well, right? Like I had plans. And I wasn't going to let those things get in the way of it. I think also attending Bethel Christian school, right? where it was discouraged to go to movies, and we didn't have dances or anything like that. So it like wasn't part of my upbringing, by any means. So I didn't feel like I was really missing out on anything. And I'm more of a work what can be productive as opposed to just like a shoot the breeze kind of thing, right? Like the podcasts I listened to. They're more for how can I get better? How can I learn more, as opposed to you know, just what's going to be entertaining, though, I will say my one guilty pleasure podcast is dumb people down by the Sklar brothers. So that's just flat out entertaining. By all means, but yeah, that was not a more difficult choice for me. But again, and also. So I guess, also get in my time machine. I was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2001. And I think a lot of that was dietary based, because there was no family history or anything like that. And so since it was dietary since then I've been a vegetarian. And so it's one of those things of, I just have to make the choice and stick to it. Is it harder to eat? Is it hard to go to trade shows and everything has meat there, you know, some meat something or other in it? Sure. But you just say like, what am I here for? Like, what am I really trying to accomplish? Then you just make those choices and in time, and that's what I think a lot of these walk ons did. They did this for oftentimes three years, four years, that period of time you do it for that long enough, it becomes second nature to you. Yeah,
Mark 38:13
yeah, I guess. Yeah. You got to understand, I think a big part of what you have to ask yourself as Can you really do it? And were you going to enjoy the journey enough? And I know, it's a subtle question. In the mix. We're trying to match the patterns of people who have been doing it. I'm, you know, I really think that you can't copy other people's journey. Right? And yeah, I'd be honest, like, you know, can I am I going to enjoy the journey is that I was mine in music school and even as a Yeah, I think probably is it my chef career, my my restaurateur journey to be a chef and to be a restaurant owner. It was I realized that the journey wasn't my thing, particularly as a musician, I love to make music, I love to be on stage. But all the things that went into it as a daily life, those weren't really didn't pull me in the same way that things like meaning sounds, maybe didn't sound silly at all, but like studying leadership and management and psychology and getting out of people's beginning, helping people get out of their own way. Like I'll do that all day. And I've done that all day for 90 years. And so and it doesn't yield immediate results. It's like it there are moments when it's when it's quite gratifying, and periods where it's quite gratifying. But long periods where like, it's the journey is all you get, that's all you got.
Jim Roddy 39:25
Yep. Nick Berra Dini is somebody who he profiled in the book, he was a walk on for the University of Missouri basketball team, and then he ended up but now, he's a movie maker, but not in an LA light. Like he's doing documentaries, which are, you know, exponentially difficult to do. And he drew the parallel between those two things where he said, if you're walking on in order for that glory of warming up in the university, Kansas basketball game where the crowd is just cheering and they're all live, like, that moment is great, but it's not going to sustain you from in August when you have to run up the hill over and over and over and he said Same with his movie career, right? If you're doing this just for the award shows and things of that nature, that is such a small part of what you do that you're going to give up along the way. So that's what he, he also teaches kids as well who are getting into the movie business where he says, You've really got to love the end product as to what you're shooting for. Because that's going to sustain you through the through the times where you're like, I don't have enough sleep, I don't know where the my next check is gonna come from, right. I'm low on food, things of that nature, if you're really committed to that dream. So you're right, you've got to have that passion. And you have to have a goal in mind.
Mark 40:32
Let's talk this ties back to the concept of the finite and infinite games, you familiar with the concepts, like the original stuff, finite and and so game theory has, pioneered the concept of a difference between a finite game and an infinite game, Simon Sinek has made it much more recently popular, and he's calling out that a finite game has an end. And you know, either like a four quarter football game ends, so you have to play very differently, there is a win and loss that goes with that. And infinite game is something that is sort of continues forever. And you know, lots of elements of life or are functionally infinite. And that the the idea of an infinite game is to keep playing the game because there's no no particular end to it, it ends for you when you no longer want to play the game and choose to depart the game. And so where I think that's super helpful is informing people and thinking about like, if your business and business is by default, more like an infinite game, because it can definitely outlive the humans who are running it now, for sure. So if we treat it like a finite game, like it ends on a certain day, we do different stuff than if we just say, Hey, we just want to keep playing the game. And then all the time it all back to like this, this idea of sacrifice in the moment, to really enjoy the journey of an infinite game, you have to understand that that moment is really it. And that your reason for playing the game needs to be present right now. You need to be purpose driven in that moment of conquering those obstacles running uphill, and the conquering that hill in that moment needs to be your purpose in that moment. And so the pattern I've already kind of already, I'm starting to see picking up in that is that these people who are successful in their sports careers, or their post sports careers, they, they treat like infinite game, like every moment is the same thing. Like the lifelong manifestation or the moment to moment manifestation is I love crushing the obstacle. I love proving people wrong, I can bring more grit to this. And that is my purpose. And it's an it's a, it's a visceral formula for the present through their entire life.
Jim Roddy 42:33
100%. And like I said earlier, it's second nature to them. I'm so glad you brought up the word grit, because somebody who you know, bought one of my books, it's a longtime business person I've been friends with, and he's like, I'm not a sports guy, but his gym, I buy one of his books, and he's like, Oh, this book isn't about sports. It's about grit, like this is all about grit. And he was super stoked with that. But I'll say also, so these walk ons are playing the long game. But a lot of times they didn't realize what they were going through and what they were learning. So like one thing that I picked up on is after I talked to I think it was probably a half dozen or so is they were forced into servant leadership, right, they were not going to get their own playing time or their own points. And they weren't there just for themselves. They were there for the good of their teammates to go to the team to go to the program. Right? They were the ones on the end of the bench waving the towel are high fiving their teammates, and they started saying to them like, this was your first venture to servant leadership, wasn't it? And they were like, I never thought of it that way. But you're 100% correct. Right. Like it was for servant leadership. And of course, they're applying that to their careers, as well, because it's something that they they forced on themselves. So yeah, I think that's well said. So I wasn't very familiar with that concept. But yet they are definitely playing the long game long game for sure.
Mark 43:45
And so I think so I think it's really insightful because you think like, why would you want to be on a plane, a team that you don't play on. And it's like, that's just packaging. The packaging is moment to moment, on conquering, conquering the obstacle, whatever that is, I'm working my way up the ladder. I'm observing what the next rung looks like. And in any moment where I can raise the stakes, raise the game, and be my best and bring in more challenge. Whatever that looks like is relative to a bunch of stuff that I don't care about. All I care is moment to moment, relativity, conquering the obstacles and I want obstacles that inspire me and when obstacles that are hard, and whatever that looks like I'm going to take on the challenge.
Jim Roddy 44:27
Yep, exactly. Right. And that's, again, tying in with, you know, step three that we talked about with run uphill, right, it takes longer, but it makes you stronger. If you know that as you're going through it, then you're saying so this is difficult. It's very hard, but it's going to make me stronger. That's something that can sustain you through the difficult times. And I've learned that as a business leader, like going through the recession was in Oh, 809 the great recession was terrible, but Did it teach me a lot of things? Heck, yeah, like those things still definitely are in my mind today.
Mark 44:56
Yeah, for sure. Alright, so just subtract back into the model,
Jim Roddy 45:00
no worries. So step four. So step four is no fuss, all muscles. So the muscles are an acronym for maximize unique strength. So no fuss means controlling your emotions, especially, you know, the negative ones, as you're seeking to advance your career, or build your business, just like I referred to the recession like that was really difficult to go through. But instead of like just crawling up in a corner, it was like, Well, what can I do, right? And so if you have to have a difficult conversation with a co worker or a client, you've got to ignore that pit in your stomach, you've got to go initiate that conversation, if you're frustrated that you're working more, while other people who aren't self employed and have their own jobs, right? Or they're going out and it seems more relaxed, you've got to get over that. And you got because any amount of energy that you spend ruining your situation is just energy wasted. So that's the no fuss, then the all must means maximize unique strength. So all the walkins we profiled again, they were shorter, skinnier, slower than those more gifted athletes, but they said, What's my special ability and my attitude, and then they brought that to the to, you know, to practice into the games every single day. The example I want to share is an entrepreneur. It's Brandon Landry. So anybody's in the southeast might know Brandon because of his restaurant, walk ons, sports beast show. So fast burning restaurant got a lot of publicity, because Drew Brees is a part owner. And then some other athletes are interested, as well. And so everything that they talked about as a company, it all goes back to Brandon's days of being a walk on. So he was and so this is kind of you see if you can pick up on the pattern here about what his unique strength is. Okay, so he's in Baton Rouge. So he's from where LSU is, that's his, you know, hometown. And so he goes to his high school there, he gets cut from the high school team. And instead of saying, I guess basketball isn't for me, he said, I got to get better. Right. And so he goes back in the gym, sure enough, he ends up being an all district kid, right. And so he's not getting recruited, except by maybe some small schools. And his dream was to go to LSU. So he had to work up the nerve to go into the office and talk to their john Brady, who was a first year head coach in order to do that. So he's like, Well, here's on tryouts are 60 kids show up at tryouts. Brandon gets cut. What does Brandon say? I guess basketball isn't for me. I'll just play intramurals. He said, No, I got to work harder. I got to play more. I got to get stronger. Well, his dad was a sugar cane farmer. And so he would go home on weekends to help his dad, we get to call one time there at home. And let's say we had some guys who were injured and some guys who left the team. We'd like for you to be a practice player. Can you be here tomorrow at 6:30am. So Brandon gets the news. He's jumping up and down next was dead track. Like, this is great. 6:30am practice. Somebody is like, why would I do that? Well, he shows up at 530. Okay, so instead of like, Oh, I finally achieved my dream. He said he was excited. But he was scared to death again. He's 511 going against like six, eight all Americans. His first practice is he is getting manhandled. What does he do? He doesn't cry. He says, I've got to get better. So in the offseason, he works on his strength, he ends up making the active roster The next year, even though he get his name on his uniform for a long time, right. And he hardly got any playing time. But he said, What can I do to make this team better? And then sure enough, from a business standpoint, he was in a business class with a fellow walk on jack Warner. And so they decided they actually sketched on a napkin on one of their flights home from University of Tennessee, they're like, we get to all these great restaurants. Baton Rouge doesn't have one of these. What can we do? And so they went and put that into a presentation for their business class. And they got to see for it. And so instead of saying like, well, I guess we shouldn't do this. What do you think he did? He didn't cry. He didn't wind he went to the professor and said, How can we make this better? And sure enough, he's turned into a fast growing franchise, right? So his unique strength is he is relentless. When he you know, you saw all those things from an athletic standpoint, when he wanted to start walk ons, six banks turned him down. The seventh one finally said yes. I said, What are the seven? Someone would have said, Yes, he's like, I would have found an eighth. Right? So that's what he does. So again, so it's no fuss. No, don't. Don't cry about your situation. All must maximize your unique strengths. Brandon Landry walk ons, his unique strength was that relentlessness. And he continues that today, and that is really imbued throughout their organization.
Mark 49:15
So it sounds kind of on off as far as as far afield but kind of Ryan Holiday obstacle is the way kind of, like, when you attempt something and you are rejected, that sounds like a loss. But in this stoic mentality that is your instruction manual to get to where you want to go. You know, if you're trying to get from point A to point E or point z, or whatever it is, and you get stuck in a, you know, point B or C well that's the reason you're not a z yet. And so your your rejection from those early stages is not your no it is your instruction manual for how you go figure out what what do I need to build up what do I need to conquer or move around and so that's, that's a great example of sort of taking every rejection as just One of the steps in the process.
Jim Roddy 50:01
Well, and I'm glad you brought up Ryan Holiday. And the obstacle is the way because I can say, as I was writing the stories, you know, I have a bookshelf right behind me. And that's one of the books on I was like, yeah, this is like the obstacle is the way for sports fans, right or for business be breaking stoicism people, like I'm not sure what that is. But there's a lot of those elements. Throughout this book. There's also a book that I've read before called Getting to plan B. And it talks about, here's my plan a, here's how I think I'm going to get there. But if you keep trying, and paying attention to what people are saying, paying attention to the situation and saying, learning your unique strength, you'll eventually get the plan B, which is better than your original plan a right because you might not know what your unique strength is, until you're actually thrown in to the situation. But yeah, you're not gonna find your unique strengths sitting on the sidelines, you got to get out on the action. Well, that's
Mark 50:48
kind of Jordan Peterson, we said there in terms of like, the purpose of a name isn't necessarily to get where you're aiming, it's to try something at all. That gives you a sense of focus to learn something useful and contextually relevant to the then then therefore, adjust your aim to something you want better. And so it's an iterative process of I don't know, where are you going try something and then that will give you a sense of was I was like, the opposite direction was get close. And then your next version is, is aligned with what you should and could be doing.
Jim Roddy 51:18
I'd say that in my business coaching all the time, try, test, measure, adapt, try, test, measure, adapt, and it's like, for the love of God, try something, right. Because if you're just sitting there, like, try something and then learn from it, even if it was 99%. Wrong, take that 1% and build upon it don't just sit still.
Mark 51:39
Well, that's that's worth underscoring, as well, because for me, I've always been afraid to do it wrong. just totally the irony of the name of the podcast, but I don't like to look embarrassed, I don't like to look, I don't want to feel embarrassed or look foolish. I like to get it right the first time. And so that's held me back from from taking iterations and taking risks. And so my daughter, I love encouraging her and I love seeing her very willing to take risks and not do it, right. And the data, the data, the data are in that repetitions is the mother of the learning. And that is the accelerant. It is not slowing it down to get it right that actually works against you. It is it is doing more wrong. So you can learn more. So you get it writer and with with more knowledge, more experience, more more tools.
Jim Roddy 52:24
I was a company president for 11 years, but work 17 plus years for a couple of brothers who were entrepreneurs, and they were really good at writing down their best practices. And people would say, Man, you guys are geniuses. How did you learn this stuff? And they said, we actually learned talking people down off telephone poles, right? So they would work in their office. And they were like out of money. And they hadn't paid the electric bill. And they'd be right. It was Rick and Terry Peterson and Rick would like look out the window. Hey, Terry, they're climbing up the telephone pole to shut off for electricity. Terry, go out there, come on down. Let me talk you out of it. And then the next day, Terry, they're gonna shut off the phones. And hey, let me let me come down. So it was them throwing themselves into that situation, struggling for years, but learning along the way that enabled them to be super successful business people going forward again. And that's the one thing where this book I know, we haven't gone over all five steps. But I think people can see so far this is very accessible. This is you mentioned about teaching your daughter. That's been the common feedback that I've received as people saying, Man, I have to have my kids read this because these are the secrets, right? There aren't shortcuts, or magic dust or anything of that nature. These are the fundamental things you need to do in order to find the success that you want.
Mark 53:34
Let's let's talk about Step five, we got enough time to do that.
Jim Roddy 53:36
Sure. So step five, is make them throw you out of the gym. Alright, and it's never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever quit. Now, some people have misinterpreted like, oh, make them throw you out of the gym. So if you're like trying out for the team go up and punch the coach in the stomach, he'll throw you out of the gym. It's like no, no, the emphasis is on them. Make them throw you out of the gym. Too many times people throw themselves out of the gym, instead of trying out for a team because I can tell you I told about all the extra work that I put in. So I would often go down to the Ganon University rec center and play against a bunch of guys who weren't on the basketball team. I played against a whole bunch of people who were taller, faster, stronger, more athletic than me. They can shoot better than me, right? But they would always have excuses why they didn't try out for the team. Oh, I get this going on. I have this I have whatever and it was like No, they threw themselves out of the gym. And I see that a lot from professional careers, right where people they start down the path and just like we've been talking about, they get some friction or static or negative feedback or just I guess it's not in the cards. So they just kind of petered out in terms of point. I think if I would have found found success in this, it would have happened by this point already. I'm going to give up on it. So that's really what the theme is for them for this. Make them throw you out of the gym, don't throw yourself out of the gym. And so the example they gave earlier was Megan Lightfoot again that rower who just came in and kept they kept telling her I don't think It's gonna work and she kept coming back. And so the CAD, the title of her of her chapter is your actions perpetually inform people about who you are. And I just thought that was a great quote, right. It's not just what you say, or what you think it's your actions. And so that's part of what motivated her to keep coming backwards. She said, I'm not a quitter, I don't let somebody talk me out of something that I really want. And I'm going to keep going forward. Again, that has been really life mantra for her as well. And I think that's something we can all learn from your actions for Petrie inform people about who you are.
Mark 55:34
So there's a ton there. So I think that you're exactly right. The actions matter. It is not about what you say, or even what you mean, or what you want. It is it is ultimately about what you do. And that tells a great story. And I, I do like the idea of the commitment to that. And so when I'm working with leadership teams, I do tell people that if we do a good job of clarifying the roles and functions in the organization, people will gravitate to the ones where they're best fit. But you need to assume as a leader, that, that a good committed player is going to say, put me in coach I can handle. So I think that there's some wisdom that can be pulled from that. And that is that you must as an individual who is asking to be put back in the game, you must understand that it has to be real, your actions, and the results fit together as manifestations of reality. Everything else is just concept. But you also as a coach, or the person who is trying to take people on and off the field have to also judge what are their actions? What are the results, and you as a coach, as a leader, as an as an entrepreneur, are going to have to take people off the field, if their actions are not yielding the results you need. And that's your job to do that. Even if their intentions and they're harder in it. You're gonna you know, I mean, Rudy was great, right, but he not starting player, he did not win. He's a valuable member of the team, he didn't get to start for Notre Dame.
Jim Roddy 57:03
Right. And I will say this, since you brought up Rudy, one of the things that kind of frustrated me about his movie and his story and how it was portrayed. And I have to say that kind of motivated me to, to write this book as well, because I watched the movie root of the the movie Rudy, he acted like, I'm the only dude who's ever done this, and whoever could do and I watched it, I was like, I did that, obviously, not even a Notre Dame scale, but there are a lot of elements were the same. And I'm like, I know there are other people who are, are doing this. And that's really a big part of this is it's not a one in a billion anomaly, right? It's these things, these actions, like the five steps that I just mentioned, they're all within your power, right? Nobody's like, you have to get an advanced degree in order to take a big shot, right, or you have to get some exponential schooling in terms of how to maximize your unique your unique strengths, right. And so the only person who can stop you from taking any of these steps, is you like I said, this is a very personal thing. So if you want to increase your knowledge, your skills, your competence, and change the trajectory of your business or your career, you just got to start thinking and acting, acting like a walk on and keep moving forward and doing those things. Awesome.
Mark 58:12
We've covered a lot, man and so don't tell me what do we miss? What do we what do you want to make sure we include in this in the model and the thinking to bring this point home?
Jim Roddy 58:22
Well, just we feature in the book, like I said, we have the we dive into deep the walk on method, the five steps, then we have 31 stories that really exemplify that from a variety of different angles into the back of the book, we get even, I would say Nydia, and grittier effects, but it's we get into the nitty gritty, but it's near and grittier. In terms of more actions, we have a list of what we call walk on workplace do's and don'ts. And so we talked about somebody who embraces the walk on attitude in a workplace, here's what they do. And here's somebody who doesn't, here's the actions that they have. So you can kind of look side by side and say, a combination of a, what am I doing? Right, individually, then, as a business leader, you can say, What am I holding out for? Right? Am I okay? With all these walk on don'ts that people are doing. And it's also a great tool to teach somebody here, the specific things you can do, because it's not just like, I'm going to be a walk on, I got to have the mindset and the attitude, because that's a lot of what I've heard from people is like, who you have that walk on attitude, what's going to translate into walk on actions. And so we have a list of 43 walk on workplace do's and don'ts that are very, very specifically One example is a walk on in a workplace, they answer email promptly, even if a request can't be filled in a timely manner. They acknowledge receipt of the email, right? I got your email, I'm not going to be able to get to this, you know, whenever, you know until Tuesday or something like that. But the receiver is like, Oh, good. At least I know they got the email. But the walk on don't is he just allow emails to pile up. The senators are like, I wonder if that message went through. I wonder if they even care. I wonder if they're still showing up for work. So we get down to those real tangible things. So that's I say the one thing I'd want people to know As the book really gets specific in terms of what actions can you take today, so again, there's a list of walk on workplace do's and don'ts that so for everybody who's embraced them during the workshops, and from reading the book, have enjoyed them.
Mark 1:00:13
I love it. It seems like a really valuable tool for any any leader who's trying to set a precedent in the culture like it, but there's a gritty culture and we got people who are trying to try their best is I think, I think that happens when people show up willing to do the work, but don't know how they don't that, especially if they haven't had the right mentors, but they it's it's in them, and there's they want to succeed. And that can be super helpful to get some real tangible things. Here's what here's what it actually looks like. What else did we miss anything else in the in this, this has been great a ton of stuff. And I'm hoping people get a chance to look at the book and check it out. And I'm sure we're gonna give them some ways to get to the website and to learn about it in the show notes. Anything else you want to add?
Jim Roddy 1:00:55
Yeah, I'd say that's the biggest thing, like we ran through, you know, the steps and everything that goes behind it. And again, I just, I can't enforce enough or reinforce enough. Ordinary people will accomplish extraordinary feats. When their energy is properly channeled. It's not they may write they will accomplish extraordinary feats for you've got to make sure that you're really moving in the right direction in order to do that. And that's why the book has been such a success is because people can say, I can picture myself doing that I know, when I've been successful at something, I've embraced these things. So the book really acts as a as a guide for that. I'd say personally, it's acted as a guide. For me writing this book or doing other things that I've done in my career. I have the walk on method up on my wall right there. And it just reminds me like, Am I taking a big enough shot? Am I letting emotions control me? So yeah, this is for anybody and everybody, ordinary people can accomplish these extraordinary feats.
Mark 1:01:48
Yeah, I love all that. And one of the things that I kind of picked up in that is, for me, it took me a long time to learn how long time is, I get the idea of working hard, but I was really misled, or I misunderstood that hard work was not one good solid effort, or even a couple of months of solid effort that like a year might be a tick of the clock, like it might not even be progress, it might be part of a four year journey, and how long a three, four or five year journey can feel, and how hot the sun can feel in the metaphorical desert, you're crossing trying to get to the other side with some passion. And that was that was major awakening for me through through life to understand that big things that happened over a 10 year period, don't happen in week to week bites, they might happen in three, four or five year bites. And that's that's a lot. And so the stories you're describing are, you know, take a whole year off before you even get back to try again. That's that's a, that's a real time commitment.
Jim Roddy 1:02:50
Right, the great meals aren't microwaved. And the great accomplishments in your career in life aren't microwaved either. But we're living in a microwave society, right? We want the news. Right away, we want the outcomes immediately. And that's what a lot of these walk ons do exemplify? Just like you said, You've really got to put in the time and the time isn't measured in hours. Oftentimes, it's measured in years.
Mark 1:03:11
Yeah, for sure. Well, awesome. What What is it to be recovered a lot, it's so valuable. To bring us home? What is your passionate plea for entrepreneurs and business leaders right now?
Jim Roddy 1:03:24
Good question. And so I would say, teach your team invest in your people. Oftentimes, we bring somebody on board, and we say they're a good performer or a great performer or an okay performer. But are we putting the time into teaching them? train them? Do you have a learning environment? And again, I'm not one of those esoteric people were like, all they have to do is come to work and learn, learn, learn. But are you actually investing in them? and seeing if they can get better? Are you just crossing your fingers in saying, I hope in time, they're going to get better? Have you sat down with them and said, What things can we do to accelerate your success? Are you taking specific actions that are going to improve their professional development, whether it's a weak area that needs to get stronger, or a strong area that needs to get outstanding? So that's kind of what I've seen. So I've, you know, played a role as a business coach for five years, and it was company president for 11 years. And that's one thing that I saw is the organizations that say, we're going to invest in building up our people, and not just using them as a cog in a wheel to produce some sort of output that to our earlier point about, that's going to pay off in the long run. So I always tell people, like when you bring on a new employee, give them the long version of the story. Don't say let's hurry through this training program so we can get you to work, right, you're investing time in them. So down the road, they can really be somebody who leads in your organization and really elevates your organization. So to the entrepreneurs. I know you're super, super busy, and you want your people to have maximum output, but also make sure you're spending time now to invest in their development and their training and their knowledge and their skills because it's going to pay dividends for you down the road, it won't impact your your income statement. In fact, it might even hurt your income statement in the short term, but it's really going to help you out in the long run. And to your point earlier, businesses aren't microwave kind of things, right? These are something that you'd want to have success over a long period of time.
Mark 1:05:17
Awesome, man. So good. I love it. I think it'll be great fuel and great feedback and instructions for people looking to improve their team. It gives us some real clarity on what what that looks like. I'm grateful for what you share, Jim. And we'll have to do something like this again, in the future. Yeah, that is your time. Now, go ahead. Do it again.
Jim Roddy 1:05:38
Yeah, no, just want to say I'm happy to happy to do that. And just if anybody wants a copy of the walk on method, it's available on Amazon. And if they want to get a free chapter of the book, just email me at Jim at Jim rotti cba.com. That's JIM are odd why CBA as in coach business advisors, not that I don't know, maybe C's dot com, happy to send them a free chapter from the book. So Mark, a friend of yours is a friend of mine.
Mark 1:06:05
Absolutely. I'm glad I'm glad we prepped for this, because I skipped I was gonna skip the very last step. And like, how do you how do people get continued conversation with you? I didn't do that at all. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna rewind and make sure that lands clearly. So if somebody does want to continue the conversation with you learn more about the walk on method. You know, what did I miss in that the website for the for the book, and all those kinds of things? What do we need to know about that?
Jim Roddy 1:06:27
Yeah, so the best way to get the book is through Amazon, just first search for the walk on method and also on LinkedIn, as well. So just search for Jim Roddy. And then the best way to reach me as Jim at Jim irati cba.com. So Jim rottie, coach, business advisors, what CBA stands for, again, happy to send a free chapter of the book, happy to talk with folks as well. I'm always looking to pick the brains of entrepreneurs and see what I can learn from them. Awesome, awesome.
Mark 1:06:54
I'm forgetting anything else before I finally wrap the show. No, I think this is great. This is great talking with you. Good, good. It's a pleasure, super helpful for me and hopefully, helpful for everybody. If you thought this was valuable, please share it with your friends, get it in front of people who can use this, this could be very valuable for any individual who's trying to understand how to get the most out of their time in life. Also really valuable for managers and leaders who are thinking I don't know how to teach my my team what hard work looks like. And success in the long term looks like especially if your culture is full is kind of, I mean, there I think there's like there's cultures where they kind of have those walk ons, people who don't have the resume don't have the education, but they but they're working for you anyway. And they're looking for guidance. I mean, other organizations have very sophisticated highly educated people and they have own own set of other problems they got to work through both can be exceedingly successful and the sort of that first category of what do you tell them? This is can be really helpful to getting getting those sort of street smart people crystal clear on some actions they can take to get the most out of their out of their lives and, and contribute to them, the team. So share that give us good feedback, bad feedback, whatever you got, we love everything you can share with us. share this with your friends, subscribe and share and all the things that go with that. And we will see you next time on you're doing it wrong with me, Mark Anderson.
VO 1:08:06
This is you're doing it wrong with Mark Henderson Leary for more episodes and to subscribe, go to lyric.cc